Taylor Swift "Red" Era

[pklongbeach]

You guys have officially ruined the small amount of twisted pleasure I took out of this thread with all of your negativity and needless arguments. Taylor loves her fans. Whether that is to encourage them to buy more of her stuff or just because she loves people that love her, no one can dispute she loves them. What she did was nice. So please stop attacking her or trying to twist what she did into some evil marketing ploy. Did anyone even KNOW she invited a select few fans to a dinner after the webcast until Shayna said she did?

As for the hatred that seems to spawn every time Taylor does ANYTHING, why do you guys think we get the reputation for being snippy, whiny jerks to Taylor Swift fans and utterly disrespectful towards Taylor herself? I thought we were the classy ones, guys. But this thread is a lot like me, unfunny, classless, and that other adjective the moderator from the fan club called me that one time I posted a thread about the word soon (I am also bitter.). Tee, the infamous Taylor hater, is at least civil most of the time. The stuff in this thread is ridiculous.

Alright Fine!
I, for the millionth time, have forgotten that Taylor Swift is not someone to objectify like Kim K. or Snookie, or Paris. She is to be treated with the kid gloves that her well manicured image dictates.
And I do understand that it is an image that is deeply engrained in many young womens minds and that any attempt to discuss her objectively (that is to say from a positive and negative perspective) is simply not to be acceptable.
And that is fine. As long as I can keep remembering that.
Many things get said here about many people that is much more venomus than me suggesting that what Taylor swift does is for some internal need to be loved.
That is a pretty objective statement. You can disagree with it or you can attack for someone even suggesting such a thing.
But anyway, I'll continue to try to keep it in check.
What Taylor Swift does must and will always be considered from the perspective of goodness and happiness and genuine kindness.
That is the way Taylor would want it afterall.
(now, see patick, even that was snarky now cut it out!)
Fine, I'll be good.

[nannygirl]

Being objective means being neither positive nor negative. And maybe I have different values than you, but I see Kim Kardashian, Snookie, and Paris Hilton as human beings, therefore I respect them as people. Do I "approve" of some of their actions? Not particularly, but I'm not in charge of judging them. I'm also not their parents. What they do is their business. Humans are flawed creatures. We all make mistakes. Just because their mistakes are brought to the public eye, the public does not have a free pass to critize them as if they were criminals or fiends. I despise society's "holier than thou" attitude regarding celebrities. The society of the world is in an awful state right now. Everybody is a hypocrite if they judge Kim Kardashian for her short marriage when the divorce rates are so high. Or if they judge Snookie for being an idiot when the literacy rates, not to mention the abysmal math and science profiency scores, are despairingly low. Matthew 7:3 (NIV)

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Do I view Taylor's actions as positive, because I'm a fan? Yes, I do. I can admit I'm biased in her favor. But I ​know how to be objective.

[Jade_kt]

The issues I have w/ TS is her childish/immature personality which tends to lead into her music and her singing ability live. Otherwise I like a few of her songs. Just not this one. But I think she is great at marketing and knows how to appeal to her fanbase. Personally I'm not a fan of hers but don't mind if she does her thing. Just wish I could actually enjoy her performance/music live for a change. Except for a few songs, I haven't enjoyed most of her work. TS has yet to win me over as a fan.

[pklongbeach]

The issues I have w/ TS is her childish/immature personality which tends to lead into her music and her singing ability live. Otherwise I like a few of her songs. Just not this one. But I think she is great at marketing and knows how to appeal to her fanbase. Personally I'm not a fan of hers but don't mind if she does her thing. Just wish I could actually enjoy her performance/music live for a change. Except for a few songs, I haven't enjoyed most of her work.

Agreed on all counts.
Why can't I just speak like that??

[Jade_kt]

To me, TS isn't going to go away just cause I don't like her or most of her music or live performances. Other people do though and so she will continue to be around for a while. So your options is to either just ignore her/move on or to find things you do like about her. Obviously there are alot of things I don't like about her but here are the things I like about TS. I liked Tear drops on my guitar, Safe and Sound, Love Story, Tim Mcgraw.

[pklongbeach]

Being objective means being neither positive nor negative. And maybe I have different values than you, but I see Kim Kardashian, Snookie, and Paris Hilton as human beings, therefore I respect them as people. Do I "approve" of some of their actions? Not particularly, but I'm not in charge of judging them. I'm also not their parents. What they do is their business. Humans are flawed creatures. We all make mistakes. Just because their mistakes are brought to the public eye, the public does not have a free pass to critize them as if they were criminals or fiends. I despise society's "holier than thou" attitude regarding celebrities. The society of the world is in an awful state right now. Everybody is a hypocrite if they judge Kim Kardashian for her short marriage when the divorce rates are so high. Or if they judge Snookie for being an idiot when the literacy rates, not to mention the abysmal math and science profiency scores, are despairingly low. Matthew 7:3 (NIV)

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Do I view Taylor's actions as positive, because I'm a fan? Yes, I do. I can admit I'm biased in her favor. But I ​know how to be objective.

My position on Objective was the abilitiy to see it from both sides. The positive "and" the negative.
A good lawyer knows how to do both.
Tell him what side to stand on and he'll fight it to the grave. Right or Wrong.
My intentions are not to make everyone hate taylor.
I have said plently of........(I would like to write Nice here, but I guess I can't) objective things about her) to to point out possilbe motives for behavior don't automatically mean I am taking that position. I have never (and I mean that) taken a position on what I think TS's motives/intentions/feelings/ are. I just look to the opposing side of her image and find alot of her behavior.....intersting!
And it is not such a new position lately as you start to see on the tabloid tv/tmz snippits calling her a whacodoole for all her obssession with the Kennedys and buying houses next to them and dressing like the dead matriarce.
Now don't lose your minds on me again. I am only stating the storys that are starting to paint newer images of her. And they are not all pleasant.
So if they can be snarky without being mean, than I think I can to.
Anyway, I think she'll be fine.

[JB172]

Being objective means being neither positive nor negative. And maybe I have different values than you, but I see Kim Kardashian, Snookie, and Paris Hilton as human beings, therefore I respect them as people. Do I "approve" of some of their actions? Not particularly, but I'm not in charge of judging them. I'm also not their parents. What they do is their business. Humans are flawed creatures. We all make mistakes. Just because their mistakes are brought to the public eye, the public does not have a free pass to critize them as if they were criminals or fiends. I despise society's "holier than thou" attitude regarding celebrities. The society of the world is in an awful state right now. Everybody is a hypocrite if they judge Kim Kardashian for her short marriage when the divorce rates are so high. Or if they judge Snookie for being an idiot when the literacy rates, not to mention the abysmal math and science profiency scores, are despairingly low. Matthew 7:3 (NIV)

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Do I view Taylor's actions as positive, because I'm a fan? Yes, I do. I can admit I'm biased in her favor. But I ​know how to be objective.

Get'em, Nanny.

[pklongbeach]

My cue to bail.
See ya'll.

[Farawayhills]

Found this posted at Pulse:

Jaye Albright's Breakfast Blog: Taylor Swift Breaks All The Boundaries

Thanks, Claire - that's an interesting article.

I agree with Jaye Albright's point that if you're seen to have left Country Music, it's difficult to come back. That's what I meant earlier when I said that Taylor Swift may need to be careful (assuming she wants to continue using the format as a base)
I think BigBlueGirl hit the nail on the head, when she pointed out that Taylor made this primary recording with Max Martin, and then allowed the studio to do a token Country mix (making it seem almost a second best afterthought).
If Taylor really feels now that the Country format has served its purpose, and her career is now too big for Country, and that she wants to go forward as a General Music star - I wish her well. I see nothing wrong with following your muse, and doing what's best for your career. Her wide fan base seem unlikely to overly concerned with formats. But it may be increasingly hard to continue to combine that route with a Country identification (and increasingly hard for those in the Country industry who want to keep her at all costs to justify the identification).

As Carrie has asked us not to dwell on comparisons between herself and Taylor (though I certainly could), I'll focus on Miranda instead. I think I've mentioned before that Miranda included two songs on "Four the Record" from giants of the Alternative Country scene (Gilian Welch and Allison Moorer) and one from one of the brightest rising stars (Brandi Carlyle, who sang at her wedding). She founded one of the Rootsiest acts to hit the Mainstream in a long while (Pistol Annies) and even moved aside some of the focus from her solo production. Yesterday (and this made me love her) she posted a picture meeting Chris Knight, and saying she felt like a 15 year old meeting Bieber.

In the face of that solid desire to identify with the deeper currents of the contemporary Country world, I see nothing similar from Taylor. As I said earlier, Taylor had the possibilities for a solid identification with Country Music - but seemed largely indifferent to using them in her own work. Lately, her identification with Country has grown thinner and thinner, while her identification with the General Music scene has grown ever more prominent. Again there's nothing wrong with that, for her or probably most of her fans, if that's what she wants - but I question how long, and how far, she can have both.

The big question, though, may be whether the Country Industry can bring itself to cut that ever thinner link - if losing her from the format means losing the fan base she's perceived as bringing with her.

[pklongbeach]

And there lies the big question: Does the country industry feel like they have won over new listeners based on her success?
I think they do. though I am not sure how they can explain that.
IF they know things we don't then they have information that claims that she has.
Otherwise, it seems to me, the majority of what they are seeing is young people participating in her "career", thats not quite the same as winning them to the genre.
I think they are seeing alot of clicks on sites and votes comeing her way and alot of call-ins and things like this.
That, to my mind, does not equal listening and appreciating country music.
It could just as easily be fans who will go wherever they need to to get her "wins" and then go right back to listening to thier top 40.
As is evidenced by this new tune I am thinking her own people know that to be the case. But for the country music industry, I am not sure they know what to do. This is a clear direction toward pop dominance. So what would be the point if she was already winning them "over to country"?

[JB172]

I get so freaking sick of people and the complete BS "wins" when it comes to Taylor or EVERYONE else not named Carrie Underwood, MEMO to you people if all of their "wins" are not deserved then so are ALL awards that Carrie has won.

NONE of these awards so are fixed so just stop with your CLASSLESS "wins" nonsense already, no wonder people like Jimmy Carter says the things he does about Carrie fans and frankly because of some people it is deserved even though it just a few people who will NEVER give credit to other artist.

[nannygirl]

This.

[Farawayhills]

And there lies the big question: Does the country industry feel like they have won over new listeners based on her success?
I think they do. though I am not sure how they can explain that.

Although I take the point made earlier that we shouldn't generalize about fan bases, I do think that a large proportion of Taylor Swift's base consists of girls and young women. These are an important demographic - e.g they are among the largest consumers of legal paid downloads, entertainment magazines , toiletries, etc. Therefore, the more who listen, the more the demographic profile of the radio station rises - which is important for attracting advertising. Also, while they are hoping to hear Taylor, and what's said about Taylor, they'll also hear other artists. That's why the record labels are pleased to see them drawn to Country radio stations. Of course, Taylor's not the only artist with such a following - but it's felt that she has a particular draw for new consumers who probably wouldn't otherwise tune to Country stations. That's why the industry has been pleased to play up her Country identification, and may be reluctant to let that change.

[pklongbeach]

Ahh, did I miss something?
Whats wrong with the word "wins".
Carrie gets "wins" alot. So does TS.
What are you reading into?
Ts's fans win her awards all the time.
So do Carries.
What is wrong with that?
What are you so angry about?

[JB172]

Blah, blah and more blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[allamericangirl8]

Please rewatch this and then reread Nanny's post.

[Gator]

This.

Fergie is Country?? Who knew?

Whatever happened to Doris Day?

[allamericangirl8]

I feel bad, but I will always be biased against Fergie because of these videos:


Fergie - Live And Let Die (2007 Live Guns N' Roses Cover) - YouTube

[JB172]

I feel bad, but I will always be biased against Fergie because of these videos:


Fergie - Live And Let Die (2007 Live Guns N' Roses Cover) - YouTube

Wait a second, I thought that was one of your all time favorite Slash performances.

[pklongbeach]

Please rewatch this and then reread Nanny's post.

I want to watch this but I am at work so I can't bring attention to my self.
I will definately get to it as soon as I can.
Why do I get the feeling I am gonna be "Carried"!