View Poll Results: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the EU?

Voters
2. You may not vote on this poll
  • Remain

    2 100.00%
  • Leave

    0 0%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
Like Tree19Likes

Thread: United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016

  1. #1
    Junior Carrie Follower CUnderwoodSparkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carrieland
    Posts
    256

    United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016

    The United Kingdom European Union membership referendum is scheduled to take place tomorrow

    The referendum is contested between the people who favour British withdrawal from the European Union and the people who favour EU membership

  • #2
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,832
    All the living Prime Ministers (John Major 1990-7, Tony Blair 1997-2007, Gordon Brown 2007-2010, and David Cameron, currently in office), who come from both main parties, support staying in the EU. The late Margaret Thatcher, and David Cameron (both Conservatives) each negotiated concessions addressing concerns over UK interests - but neither ever advocated a policy of leaving the EU. If the country did vote to leave, but subsequently found conditions worsening, it would be extremely unlikely that these concessions would be offered again. Withdrawal would therefore be likely to involve a one-way decision, or at most, having to press for an eventual return on far less favourable terms. As the world's largest trading bloc, the EU will continue to have a major influence on economic conditions in the UK, regardless of whether the UK stays or leaves - but, outside, the country would have no say in shaping the bloc's future development.

    A number of leading organizations have warned of the likely difficulties involved in leaving the bloc - but one feature of the often heated and divisive campaign has been a growing gulf between what some see as the political and economic establishment, and the feelings of voters who feel marginalized and alienated from the political culture, which they see as failing to listen to their concerns. This feeling has been harnessed by some spokespersons for the "Leave" campaign, who have adopted a "populist" tone, highligting topics such as immigration, security of borders, patriotism and sovereignty. In this respect, the divisions exposed by the campaign show some similarities with the current heated political climate in the US, and (ironically) with the rise of Right Wing nationalist parties in Continental Europe itself.

    There has also been an effect on the main domestic parties. The Conservatives (popularly known as "Tories"), who are currently in government, appear particularly split over this issue (which has actually been a bone of contention for 40 years or more). The current leader, David Cameron, and the Chancellor, George Osborne (who supervises the Budget and government finance) both favour saying in - but their personal positions may be heavily undermined if the Leave vote wins. The Leave campaign includes some people across the political spectrum - but its main leadership, and much of its tone, have come from the political Right, making it likely that a Leave vote will pull the Conservatives more in that direction.
    The Labour Party (the main opposition) moved significantly to the Centre under Tony Blair - and this stance won them three national elections in the 90s and 200os. Labour spokespersons have been strong in the "Remain" campaign, especially in the later stages of the debate - but the present leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who was elected mainly by a groundswell from party activists, is further to the Left than many of his MPs, and he has appeared rather ambivalent about the EU, playing little part in the campaigning. Differences between him and some of his MPs also appear likely to be a difficulty in attracting majority national support in the wider electorate.

    A further complication is that support for staying in the EU appears considerably stronger in Scotland - so a "Leave" vote could revive pressure for the break-up of the UK.

    Most recent polls have tended to show a small overall majority for leaving - though with undecided voters, the margin of error, and the tendency for less committed voters to opt for the status quo, predictions are very difficult. Heavy rain and thunderstorms, if they persist into tomorrow may effect the turnout, and a close vote either way may do nothing to assuage the divisions that have been exposed.

  • #3
    Ultimate Carrie Fan AIgrl06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,782
    Concert Stars
    ^Thank you so much, Faraway! That's a very thorough--yet easy for foreigners to comprehend--description of what's going on over there at the moment. I admit that while in favor of the UK remaining in the EU, as an American, I'm not as well versed in the subject as I'd like to be. I wasn't aware that that support is much higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK, though thinking about it that makes sense because Scotland tends to lean more to the left than the rest of the country anyways. The ramifications (however small) on the support for Scottish independence is something I hadn't seen mentioned in connection to the Brexit vote.
    rainbow1 and Farawayhills like this.

  • #4
    Ultimate Carrie Fan AIgrl06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,782
    Concert Stars
    Well, this has been the weirdest year in politics, certainly of my life.

  • #5
    Carrie Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,043
    The "Leave" (the European Union) is winning and I do think it will.

  • #6
    Junior Carrie Follower CUnderwoodSparkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carrieland
    Posts
    256
    Thanks Farawayhills for the helpful post.

    All of us have known the result now. I didn't expect this, of course

    Do you think that Mr. Boris Johnson, ex-Mayor of London, will become the next Prime Minister? He is a strong leader of the Brexit movement

    Many people, i.e. Mayor Sadiq Aman Khan, have called for a referendum on the independence of London from the UK because most Londoners want to remain in the EU. How do you think of London's chance to become a new sovereign state and a EU member?

    Mr. Donald Trump undoubtedly congratulated Brexit, and so did the far-right Mrs. Marine Le Pen in France
    rainbow1 and rainbow1 like this.

  • #7
    Ultimate Carrie Fan AIgrl06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,782
    Concert Stars
    It seems like everyone is looking to Johnson as the next PM. But is he that well liked within the Conservative leadership? I'm genuinely asking.

    It also strikes me as far fetched to imagine London out of the UK. Scotland looks very possible and I've also been seeing a lot about the reunification of Ireland, but London? Just seems unthinkable. I find it slightly jarring that these decisions that have enormous economic consequences are put to a referendum where only 50% plus one is needed for victory. This could have massive, massive ramifications.

    Imagine a world in which our leaders are Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. It's truly frightening.

  • #8
    Carrie Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,043
    The original ideas of creating a "European Union" was to Rival "The United States of America" --so, economically, Europe can compete with the United States.

  • #9
    Carrie Guru rainbow1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    15,297
    Concert Stars
    Anxious to see what Faraway thinks of the situation now. It certainly affects us all. Just took a look at my portfolio!
    bluetb4 likes this.

  • #10
    Ultimate Carrie Fan HuiZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    6,345
    I was leaning towards Britain leaving as well, tbh. I don't live there though, so I am definitely not as well informed and won't be as affected as the Brits.

  • #11
    Carrie Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,043
    I am sure Britain will be able to Live without the European Union - Britain was a Great Nation (Empire) long before joining the E.U : "The Sun Never Sets In The British Empire" !

    in my opinion, On the other hand, this is the beginning of the End of the European Union.

  • #12
    Junior Carrie Follower CUnderwoodSparkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carrieland
    Posts
    256
    Originally the phrase was The Sun Never Sets On The Spanish Empire.
    The more popular phrase The Sun Never Sets On The British Empire came later because of the rise of the British power and the losses of Spanish colonies.

    The British Empire "was a Great Nation before" as Mirasa said, and more correctly I would say the British Empire was a superpower of the world. But its status as a superpower has been diminished since World War II. It was a superpower in the time of colonialism, when the British Empire still controlled a lot of territories around the world. And nowadays, you can not expect to revive such an empire again.

    England and Wales can live without the membership in the EU, as we see in the cases of Switzerland and Norway. But it can live much better when being a part of the EU. The UK joined the EU (the EEC) in 1973, many years after its loss of the status as a superpower. And it has gained a lot of benefits as a member.

    Obviously, nowadays no single country in Europe can compare with the USA, the world's only superpower. But the EU, as a single entity, can. So why do you want it to end? We should prevent any similar separation in another EU member state

  • #13
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,832
    Quote Originally Posted by CUnderwoodSparkles View Post
    Thanks Farawayhills for the helpful post.

    All of us have known the result now. I didn't expect this, of course

    Do you think that Mr. Boris Johnson, ex-Mayor of London, will become the next Prime Minister? He is a strong leader of the Brexit movement

    Many people, i.e. Mayor Sadiq Aman Khan, have called for a referendum on the independence of London from the UK because most Londoners want to remain in the EU. How do you think of London's chance to become a new sovereign state and a EU member?

    Mr. Donald Trump undoubtedly congratulated Brexit, and so did the far-right Mrs. Marine Le Pen in France
    I understand the new Conservative leader will be elected at their Party Conference in October. David Cameron, although he has effectively resigned, in a moving address outside 10 Downing Street, with his wife, will remain as interim Prime Minister until then. He does not wish to be the one to invoke the Treaty provision to leave the EU, so it appears to be the intention not to begin that process until the new party leader is in place (That delay, though, may prove difficult - some senior figures in the EU want the process to begin immediately). Negotiations to withdraw, and to hammer out the details of a new relationship, are supposed to take two years from the date of invoking the treaty clause, but the details may take longer. EU case law will linger in judges decisions for many years, unless future governments try to take steps to counter each situation with new statutes.

    Gisela Stuart (the official leader of the "Leave" campaign) is a Labour MP, and therefore not in the running to succeed as PM. She was one of the few Labour politicians to campaign for "Leave" (and also, earlier, had been the only one to openly support the election of President George W Bush to a second term). Hence she is something of a "maverick" figure on the Labour benches - though on the "Leave" issue, she seems more in touch with many of the Party's traditional working class voters than her colleagues appear to have been

    That leaves Boris Johnson (the former mayor of London) and Michael Gove (the Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary) as the two most prominent "Leave" Tories. Of these Boris Johnson is definitely the media and bookies' favourite to succeed. In my opinion he's a rather polarizing figure, whom people seem to love or mock in equal measure. His position must be strong with the Eurosceptic MPs, as the person who arguably had the highest profile with the public in winning the debate. It is, however, possible that the party will go for a more neutral figure, in the hope of achieving greater unity.

    Greater London has a larger population than many independent states, and is a world financial centre. It is, therefore, theoretically possible that it could become a city-state like Singapore. In practice, though, I think this idea is a non-starter - there is no evidence that public opinion or government willingness would seriously consider a break-away of any local authority area in England. (Scotland is a very different situation, being a historic nation, with its own legislature and chief minister.)

  • #14
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,832
    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow1 View Post
    Anxious to see what Faraway thinks of the situation now. It certainly affects us all. Just took a look at my portfolio!
    The financial instabilty is proving greater than the crash of 2008, and probably the worst since the country dropped out of the exchange rate mechanism in the '70s. However, it's likely that the worst of this volatility will be short-term - and if you don't need to sell your stocks quickly, things should improve. The Bank of England have said they will take extraordinary measures if necessary to restore market confidence, and the more mainstream "leave" campaigners (discussed above) have made moderate statements, designed to try and bridge the sense of disunity in the nation.

    On a personal level, I'm afraid I did see the referendum result in England as likely - but it was definitely not what I wanted. (One of our Sussex MPs - the lone representative of the Green Party - said she was broken-hearted , and, while I don't support her party, I know how she feels). I voted to remain, and that was the majority vote in my district - one of four in Sussex to want to stay.

    For me, the most disturbing factor has been the tone and the ideological nature of much of the "leave" vote. I see it as a largely emotional reaction, fueled by a looking back to a narrower nationalism, combined with a resentment of the level of immigration. The campaign often played on these feelings, and the more moderate statements being made now can't disguise the fact that they were often noticeably encouraging a simplistic emotional response that had little to do with real solutions to the actual problems. From my personal point of view, this campaign was not an image that I would want the UK to be identified with around the world, nor a legacy that I would want to pass to succeeding generations.

    Many of the politicians (including Cameron himself, but especially those on the Labour side, much of whose traditional support is in areas with heavy "leave" votes, such as South Wales, the North and Midlands of England, and parts of the East coast) underestimated the sense of resentment, which was combined with a feeling that the political establishment was ignoring them. The problems of these areas are often very real, with industrial decline, poor housing stock, few neighbourhood amenities and limited opportunities. But immigration is largely a symbolic scapegoat for more deep seated problems, which politicians are still only too likely to lack the money or the will to solve. The irony is that these areas will now lose the EU funds that were channeled into redevelopment, and may also get fewer of the small shops, restaurants and local service activities that the usually younger and often more dynamic immigrants have tended to bring.
    rainbow1 likes this.

  • #15
    Carrie Guru rainbow1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    15,297
    Concert Stars
    Yes, I agree about "holding steady", maybe some buyers will come in next week buying low.

  • #16
    Junior Carrie Follower CUnderwoodSparkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carrieland
    Posts
    256
    Thank you very much, Faraway. You are not only good at music analysis but also good at political analysis. I'm so happy to praise you as my erudite teacher. I hope you don't mind receiving this honour.

    I undoubtedly think that you have noticed that Gibraltar also voted in this referendum. Most Gibraltarians want to remain. By contrast, the people in Guersey, Jersey, and the Isle of Man were not allowed to vote.

    I have known about the current political status of these little territories as well as their connections with the UK and the EU, but I would still like to hear some comments of yours on them.

    How will the result of this referendum affect these territories? Hasn't Spain got any chance to assert sovereignty in Gibraltar?

    It is possible that among all the overseas territories, Gibraltar enjoys the most special status and has the closest tie to the UK.

    On the other hand, if the Scottish independence question is revived, I think it will be successful this time. The current situation in 2016 is totally different from the situation in 2014. Perhaps in 2014 Alex Salmond could not predict what would happen later, and the referendum on the independence at that time did not seem to be careful.

    In Northern Ireland, Sinn Féin politician Martin McGuinness called for a referendum on the secession of Northern Ireland to make room for the unification with the independent state of Ireland. Do you agree with me that this referendum will not have as much chance as the Scottish referendum does? I think such a referendum in Northern Ireland will be opposed by the Democratic Unionist Party
    Farawayhills likes this.

  • #17
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,832
    Mirasa45A and Kizmet311 like this.

  • #18
    Carrie Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post

    That's funny....ha...ha..ha...ha..

  • #19
    Junior Carrie Follower CUnderwoodSparkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carrieland
    Posts
    256
    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post
    That leaves Boris Johnson (the former mayor of London) and Michael Gove (the Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary) as the two most prominent "Leave" Tories. Of these Boris Johnson is definitely the media and bookies' favourite to succeed. In my opinion he's a rather polarizing figure, whom people seem to love or mock in equal measure. His position must be strong with the Eurosceptic MPs, as the person who arguably had the highest profile with the public in winning the debate. It is, however, possible that the party will go for a more neutral figure, in the hope of achieving greater unity.
    Originally Mr. Michael Gove declined to run for the Conservative leadership and endorsed Mr. Boris Johnson, but everything quickly changed today as Mr. Gove decided to fill for candidacy, and Mr. Johnson ruled himself out of the race.

    There are 5 candidates in the Conservative Party leadership election, 3 Leave (Mr. Gove, Mr. Liam Fox, and Mrs. Andrea Leadsom) and 2 Remain (Mr. Stephen Crabb and Mrs. Theresa May).

    I'm looking forward to hearing your comments on this surprising change and the candidates' chances, Farawayhills

  • #20
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,832
    Quote Originally Posted by CUnderwoodSparkles View Post
    Thank you very much, Faraway. You are not only good at music analysis but also good at political analysis. I'm so happy to praise you as my erudite teacher. I hope you don't mind receiving this honour.

    I undoubtedly think that you have noticed that Gibraltar also voted in this referendum. Most Gibraltarians want to remain. By contrast, the people in Guersey, Jersey, and the Isle of Man were not allowed to vote.

    I have known about the current political status of these little territories as well as their connections with the UK and the EU, but I would still like to hear some comments of yours on them.

    How will the result of this referendum affect these territories? Hasn't Spain got any chance to assert sovereignty in Gibraltar?

    It is possible that among all the overseas territories, Gibraltar enjoys the most special status and has the closest tie to the UK.

    On the other hand, if the Scottish independence question is revived, I think it will be successful this time. The current situation in 2016 is totally different from the situation in 2014. Perhaps in 2014 Alex Salmond could not predict what would happen later, and the referendum on the independence at that time did not seem to be careful.

    In Northern Ireland, Sinn Féin politician Martin McGuinness called for a referendum on the secession of Northern Ireland to make room for the unification with the independent state of Ireland. Do you agree with me that this referendum will not have as much chance as the Scottish referendum does? I think such a referendum in Northern Ireland will be opposed by the Democratic Unionist Party
    People in Gibraltar do not normally vote in UK elections, but were allowed to vote in the referendum to fulfill a promise David Cameron made to their legislature. 90% of their small electorate voted to remain. They share a land border with the EU, and people on both sides cross the border to work. A special relationship is highly likely to be worked out for them - it would not seem to be in Spain's interest to try to block this.

    Spain, however, may try to block any special treatment for Scotland, including admitting them to the EU as an independent state. This is because Spain faces separatist movements in Catalunya and Euskadi, and they think that Scotland leaving the UK could encourage those regions to break away.

    The Isle of Man, Jersey, and Guernsey are not part of the UK, and only depend on the UK for defence and a few other services. They have their own legislatures, and don't vote in UK elections. They are not full members of the EU, but have a special relationship. I don't expect this to change.

    The suggestion that Northern Ireland should have a vote on the border conforms to Sinn Fein policy - but would be strongly opposed by the Unionist majority and is unlikely to get anywhere. However, Northern Ireland has historic ties to Scotland (the Unionist majority sometimes call themselves "Scots Irish"). If Scotland were to become independent and be admitted to the EU, it's possible that Northern Ireland would prefer to link to them, rather than to England and Wales - but this has not been actively discussed.

    The main "Leave" politicians in the UK have said that whatever happens with the negotiations, they don't intend to close the border with the Irish Republic. (Ireland is not in the Schengen agreement, and doesn't have a land border with any other part of the EU, so it should be possible to continue to have an amicable agreement on travel between the UK and Ireland without internal restrictions)
    CUnderwoodSparkles likes this.


  •  
    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. (June 10, 2016) CMAFEST 2016- Nissan Stadium- Nashville TN
      By teesharky in forum Concerts & Events: Reviews, Photos & Videos
      Replies: 407
      Last Post: 10-03-2016, 12:52 PM
    2. [Jun 18 2016] Cadott, WI - Country Fest 2016
      By opry051008 in forum Concerts & Events: Reviews, Photos & Videos
      Replies: 80
      Last Post: 07-27-2016, 04:22 PM
    3. CMT Music Awards 2016 (June 8, 2016)
      By dismokemi in forum HQ Carrie Video
      Replies: 30
      Last Post: 06-20-2016, 12:34 AM
    4. Dick Clark's Rockin' New Years Eve 2016 (January 1, 2016)
      By dismokemi in forum HQ Carrie Video
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 04-11-2016, 08:02 PM
    5. Carriefans members living in the UK and the upcoming referendum in Scotland
      By IdolCarrieAlwaysShines in forum Current Events
      Replies: 19
      Last Post: 09-19-2014, 03:26 AM

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •