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Thread: Robertson Tells Men to Marry Underage Girls Who Cooks

  1. #121
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    The hebrew translation of the word "sin" is to "Fall short of the mark".

    The word sin can be related to any area of a persons life where they strive for perfection and fail.

    It has become a word of damnation to be used as a stone to throw.
    But really, in its literal translation, it turns out we all do sin. Everyday.

    But of course this assumes you subscribe to the concepts of the bible and of sin.
    IF you do, than you are a sinner period and literally, and have no right to suggest someone else is a sinner and is going to hell. No one knows whos going to this so-called hell cause in the new testement Jesus gives every person a right to redemption even in the last seconds of life, While hanging on the Cross.

    But if you do not subscribe to a concept of sin, which many people do not, than you are blameless and are just trying hard to do the right thing in life. Good Karma.

    Either way, in either circumstance, no one as a right to ssugest or assume anyone is going anywhere.

    "From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks."

    Instead of telling people they are going to hell, christians could be spending their time telling people about the wonderful joys of their faith.

    Most, because they are sinners themselves, would rather just condemn you.
    Thats why "we all fall short"!!!
    The concept of heaven and hell is actually impossible. For example, if my mother behaves and goes to heaven, she would be pretty upset to not see me (gay) or my father (agnostic) up there. She will of course also be surprised to not see her other son (an altar boy who doesn't even believe that Jesus had ever existed) up there. Will she be happy in heaven? Will it be heaven to her? How will she feel knowing that the few people she cared most about are all burning in hell for eternity because we do not follow her catholic god?

    If 'heaven' is merely an 'objective' place, ie heaven to god, not necessarily to humans, then why is heaven good for anyone at all? Further on this, since basically everything that bring you pleasure is in one way or another a form of sinning, it either means 1. you cannot have pleasure in heaven; or 2. 'sins' are not actually 'bad' things and you can sin in heaven.

    Then of course, the concept of hell does not fit with the idea of a loving and forgiving god, especially not with the only unforgivable sin being denying the holy spirit.

    When I mentioned some of these to a gay christian, he responded saying that hell was never explicitly described in The Bible and is mostly a modern concept fabricated by people in recent times. Now, I didn't bother to double check this because I really don't care. But this makes a much stronger theological stance.

  • #122
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    YEs, most of what we know as Hell are artist renderings.

    The hebrew translation from the bible is "in the absense of God".

    So Hell is basically a "no mans land" where you no longer have an opportunity to be with God.

    So one, now a days, could certainly argue, "why would I want to be in Heaven with a vengful angry God who supports Phil Robertson and Tammy Faye Baker?"

    So yes, Hell is the absense of God. Whatever that means to you. Some will be whaling and nashing their teeth. The Kardashians I assume will be counting money without the guilt of having to give it away......

  • #123
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    YEs, most of what we know as Hell are artist renderings.

    The hebrew translation from the bible is "in the absense of God".

    So Hell is basically a "no mans land" where you no longer have an opportunity to be with God.

    So one, now a days, could certainly argue, "why would I want to be in Heaven with a vengful angry God who supports Phil Robertson and Tammy Faye Baker?"

    So yes, Hell is the absense of God. Whatever that means to you. Some will be whaling and nashing their teeth. The Kardashians I assume will be counting money without the guilt of having to give it away......
    The last time I check the Kardashians are all christians. They can just repent/confess before they die and then they are going straight to heaven.

    Robertson and Baker are not my concerns. If the Old Testament was anything to go by, I wouldn't want to be under god's radar, especially not as his favourite people.

  • #124
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    The problem is you have totruly repent and ask the lord to come into your heart (at least some christians say that is the only way). And I don't think Kim realizes she is sinning when she tells the world she is raising money for charity and keeping 90% of it.

    You can call yourself a christian and say "I want to thank God" when you recieve awards, but I don't think that "makes you" a christian.

    Its hard to tell anymore how christians expect to get into heaven. Even among christians most believe that their particular section is the only ones getting in.
    Catholic christians don't believe protestants are getting in, and protestants don't believe catholics are getting in.

    Heck most protestants don't even realize Catholics "are" christians.
    Heaven and Hell are a big mess!!

    Its sad to me personally only because when any straight person says they are christians and going to heaven, there is at least a debate.
    They all seem pretty comfortable sending me to Hell!

    But again, if it means "in the absence of most of them?" i am pretty ok with that. At least there won't be arguing.

  • #125
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    The problem is you have totruly repent and ask the lord to come into your heart (at least some christians say that is the only way). And I don't think Kim realizes she is sinning when she tells the world she is raising money for charity and keeping 90% of it.

    You can call yourself a christian and say "I want to thank God" when you recieve awards, but I don't think that "makes you" a christian.

    Its hard to tell anymore how christians expect to get into heaven. Even among christians most believe that their particular section is the only ones getting in.
    Catholic christians don't believe protestants are getting in, and protestants don't believe catholics are getting in.

    Heck most protestants don't even realize Catholics "are" christians.
    Heaven and Hell are a big mess!!

    Its sad to me personally only because when any straight person says they are christians and going to heaven, there is at least a debate.
    They all seem pretty comfortable sending me to Hell!

    But again, if it means "in the absence of most of them?" i am pretty ok with that. At least there won't be arguing.
    If Kim genuinely believe that she is doing good, then it means she doesn't have bad intentions. Should the judgement be placed only on actual outcomes?

    What if someone is really, really good but just messes everything up because of his inability to do things well?

  • #126
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    If Kim genuinely believe that she is doing good, then it means she doesn't have bad intentions. Should the judgement be placed only on actual outcomes?

    What if someone is really, really good but just messes everything up because of his inability to do things well?
    Jesus covers that argument. He says everyone will understand what is expected of them.

    Kim knew exactly what she was doing. If you call yourself a christian (and you are one in Gods eyes) than it is expected that you know and study the teachings of Jesus.
    You can not do what Kim did and be a christian.

    There is a special place in Hell for people who "mislead" by using the name of Jesus. And its not good.
    Calling yourself a christian and then using that to sin is a really bad sin!!!

    That is why I stopped calling myself a christian long ago. IF most of the christians of the world are confused and upset by me as a christian, than I am not doing my job as a christian.
    I can still be right with God and not call myself a christian.
    As long as christians yell and scream about me going to Hell. I will not count myself amoung them.
    God will understand.
    But will he understand those who screamed against me??

  • #127
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    pklongbeach: where do you get your theology from? While I am refraining from replying to your Scripture interpretations, I am very puzzled at your interpretation and subsequent application.

  • #128
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pi314CA View Post
    pklongbeach: where do you get your theology from? While I am refraining from replying to your Scripture interpretations, I am very puzzled at your interpretation and subsequent application.
    I was born and raised in the christian faith.
    I was born and baptized a Catholic. But as a teenager, the baptist church in our town had a strong youth group and music program. So I became involved in that youth ministry.

    I became the president of the BYF (Baptist Youth Fellowship) and toured with the Continental Singers for several seasons as ministers of the word through music.

    I have been in the pews my whole life. I am currently the Minister of Music for a church out here in Calif.

    The way in which I tend to interpret scripture and the will of God for me and the world around me, tends to be based on just a lifetime of expossure and study of it. I have read the entire bible cover to cover.

    But I do use layman's terms and a basic literal understanding of jesus words.
    I do focus more on what he said as opposed to the interpretations of the diciples or other interpreters.
    I have been raised to believe that it is my job to seek understanding for myself in the scriptures.
    As a gay man, I can not possibly accept the words writen the same way someone else might.
    So I see covetessness as literal a sin as any other. Or adultry. You are commiting adultry just by looking at a woman if you accept the scriptures literally. So by this understanding I am able, hopefully, to find grace for myself but also for anyone who seeks to understand that we all fall short and it is only through our concious effort that we can hope to find true meaning for our lives.

    So yes, you may be seeking your christian path through some pretty intense focus on the bible. But mine seeking comes from a willingness to look at the world around me and try to find Jesus desire in it.

    though I have to be honest, I gave up accepting myself as a christian long ago. Again, I can not accept being a part of a fellowship that seeks to condemn me personally.
    That is a very danergous and unhealthy thing to be a part of.
    So I find God as best I can in the world around me, with my butt still in the pew listening for that wee small voice of inspiration.
    I figure, if I am condemned anyway, the least I can do is still try to people "the saved" to make this a better world. So I try hard with the music I provide for the church to create inspiration and devotion.
    But unfortuatley I will not call myself a christian.

    Not as long as Phil t is willing to tell the world that I am the problem and not part of the solution.

    I hope that helps, and I hope you never think I am coming about talking religion for a flipent perspecitve.
    I do not, but since religion does not want me a part of it, I can talk about it objectively wihtout scorning myself.

  • #129
    Huge Carrie Follower gran29's Avatar
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    I don't understand why you think Phil speaks for Christians. He speaks for himself. That is what he believes. I don't like generalizations about Christians, gays, gay Christians, democrats, republicans or anyone else. Please don't lump us all together. We are all individuals with free will. One person's opinions or actions are theirs alone.
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  • #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by gran29 View Post
    I don't understand why you think Phil speaks for Christians. He speaks for himself. That is what he believes. I don't like generalizations about Christians, gays, gay Christians, democrats, republicans or anyone else. Please don't lump us all together. We are all individuals with free will. One person's opinions or actions are theirs alone.
    Well said

  • #131
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    I never meant to suggest that Phils speaks for all christians.
    I know way to many christians who do not think anything like him.

    But he does speak as a christian. He specifically states that he does.
    And his whole issue with gays was regarding "sin", sin is a christian concept.

    So he does speak as a christian. And he will be judged accordingly.

    But no, I am aware that he does not speak for all christians. How can he? He is not mormon or catholic. So he can't possibly speak for all christians.

  • #132
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    I was born and raised in the christian faith.
    I was born and baptized a Catholic. But as a teenager, the baptist church in our town had a strong youth group and music program. So I became involved in that youth ministry.

    I became the president of the BYF (Baptist Youth Fellowship) and toured with the Continental Singers for several seasons as ministers of the word through music.

    I have been in the pews my whole life. I am currently the Minister of Music for a church out here in Calif.

    The way in which I tend to interpret scripture and the will of God for me and the world around me, tends to be based on just a lifetime of expossure and study of it. I have read the entire bible cover to cover.

    But I do use layman's terms and a basic literal understanding of jesus words.
    I do focus more on what he said as opposed to the interpretations of the diciples or other interpreters.
    I have been raised to believe that it is my job to seek understanding for myself in the scriptures.
    As a gay man, I can not possibly accept the words writen the same way someone else might.
    So I see covetessness as literal a sin as any other. Or adultry. You are commiting adultry just by looking at a woman if you accept the scriptures literally. So by this understanding I am able, hopefully, to find grace for myself but also for anyone who seeks to understand that we all fall short and it is only through our concious effort that we can hope to find true meaning for our lives.

    So yes, you may be seeking your christian path through some pretty intense focus on the bible. But mine seeking comes from a willingness to look at the world around me and try to find Jesus desire in it.

    though I have to be honest, I gave up accepting myself as a christian long ago. Again, I can not accept being a part of a fellowship that seeks to condemn me personally.
    That is a very danergous and unhealthy thing to be a part of.
    So I find God as best I can in the world around me, with my butt still in the pew listening for that wee small voice of inspiration.
    I figure, if I am condemned anyway, the least I can do is still try to people "the saved" to make this a better world. So I try hard with the music I provide for the church to create inspiration and devotion.
    But unfortuatley I will not call myself a christian.

    Not as long as Phil t is willing to tell the world that I am the problem and not part of the solution.

    I hope that helps, and I hope you never think I am coming about talking religion for a flipent perspecitve.
    I do not, but since religion does not want me a part of it, I can talk about it objectively wihtout scorning myself.
    I swear you just said you were christian like a few pages back.

  • #133
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    I swear you just said you were christian like a few pages back.
    NO I did not.

    I was born and raised in the christian faith, but because I find it impossible to be considered a christian by christians, I see no point in calling myself one.

  • #134
    Insane Carrie Fan carrieguy2's Avatar
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    on the lighter side enjoy Tom Lehrer singing National Brotherhood Week

    Tom Lehrer National Brotherhood Week Lyrics and Chords - YouTube

  • #135
    Ultimate Carrie Fan supercarriefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Oh please. So a christian is allowed to post a random quote from The Bible telling gays to go to hell, but I cannot post a random quote from The Bible telling her that quoting one verse means nothing?

    I talked about the age of consent, and marriage law reforms. Did you? Did much of anyone else? Whether gay people are going to hell (which seems to be the direction this is heading) is not a social issue.
    My post didn't speak to anyone being 'allowed' to post anything. I just personally (the key word here being 'personally') find it frustrating that you continually post articles related to Christianity just to stir the pot. It really does look like that.
    I didn't actually reference any of your posts in particular, so I have no idea why you are claiming I said you can't post a quote from the Bible. Post away.

    No, I didn't talk about age of consent or marriage laws because I didn't actually comment at any great length on the topic at all. I am simply enjoying reading people's perspectives on this matter.

    The treatment of the gay and lesbian community by Christians is a social issue.The conversation here may have taken a different turn at times, but my comment was related directly to Phil Robertson's original comments that sparked the conversation. He really is drawing attention to certain issues whether he wishes to or not.
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  • #136
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercarriefan View Post
    My post didn't speak to anyone being 'allowed' to post anything. I just personally (the key word here being 'personally') find it frustrating that you continually post articles related to Christianity just to stir the pot. It really does look like that.
    I didn't actually reference any of your posts in particular, so I have no idea why you are claiming I said you can't post a quote from the Bible. Post away.

    No, I didn't talk about age of consent or marriage laws because I didn't actually comment at any great length on the topic at all. I am simply enjoying reading people's perspectives on this matter.

    The treatment of the gay and lesbian community by Christians is a social issue.The conversation here may have taken a different turn at times, but my comment was related directly to Phil Robertson's original comments that sparked the conversation. He really is drawing attention to certain issues whether he wishes to or not.
    The thing is, as long as what I post are facts, who I am and what I have been posting shouldn't matter, and should not be considered a topic of discussion. These are not my 'opinion pieces'.

  • #137
    Insane Carrie Fan carebear4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    The thing is, as long as what I post are facts, who I am and what I have been posting shouldn't matter, and should not be considered a topic of discussion. These are not my 'opinion pieces'.
    I am slain. Bravo!

  • #138
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carebear4eva View Post
    I am slain. Bravo!
    http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9f888c32.gif


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