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  1. #81
    Insane Carrie Fan carebear4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gran29 View Post
    Everyone judges based on their own personal beliefs. In that sense, everyone is judgemental. Phil is being judged by having certain beliefs, as are those who say what he said was wrong. Who's right? No one knows but God.
    Who ?
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  • #82
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carebear4eva View Post
    Who ?
    Probably just means no one knows.

    That world view ignores the obvious fact there are reasons and logic in the world though.

  • #83
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    "but have you not Love, your voice is like a clanging Gong, loud and meaningless......"

    There are gay christians, and if God can manage to change you into someone who deserves heaven you will see them there.

    But I am not so sure you are savable.
    Well you don't get to say who's 'savable' and who's not unless you are defining your own god.
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  • #84
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie2011 View Post
    Who said I was judging? I was just quoting the Scripture. And I repent from my sins. Do I still make mistakes of course I do but I ask for forgiveness and try to not do it again.
    Are you a woman? Because:

    'Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.' (I Timothy 2:11-14)

    Well, I was just quoting the scripture.
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  • #85
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie2011 View Post
    There is a difference between stating a fact, and being judgemental. This is what I hate about today's society if you go against homosexuals beliefs on same sex marriage you are all of a sudden judgemental, and hateful I mean just because straights does not have the same views on same sex marriage doesn’t mean we hate them cause we don't. The Bible said that gays goes to hell wayyyyy before I did. #justsaying
    The Greeks said homosexuality is correct and good before your Hebrew god was even created. #justsaying

  • #86
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sur_crazy4carrie View Post
    BTW, your new Pope says that the concept of Hell does not comply with the notion of a forgiving God. So maybe everyone goes to heaven and the homosexuals will be asked to chase butterflies while the non-sinners get to play with puppies.
    There are non-sinners in christianity?

  • #87
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    I am starting to realize that it is in the concept of a "reward for people" that people miss the meaning of chirstianity.

    The idea of a heaven where they get Joy, and a Hell where everyone else suffers, puts them at quite an advantage in their own heads.

    And imagine what it must feel like to know you are besties with the creator of earth! Wow, impressive.

    The only problem is, people are corrupt. And as soon as they realize they have heaven and they get to send people to hell, thats all they focus on. There is no more need to work or try or stuggle or suffer.

    They are in, and you are out!!

    John Lennon said "Imagine theres no Heaven..." thats because he understood that by having a heaven people think they are allowed to send others to hell.

    Little do they know most of the earths people don't not believe in they're mean little elitist mantality of rewards for them and eternal damnation for everyone else.

    The truth is, everyone thinks they have the answer...

    And thats fine with me, I have no problem with everyone having a belief.

    It is just sad and alienagting to me that some are so gleeful about telling me that in their small minds I am going to suffer an eterity of pain from fire and scalding hot death. Thats not very nice. Butthey tell me it as if they are saying "Ha ha ha......"

    Thats a pretty mean religion to be a part of....

    It just doesn't sound like the Stories of Jesus that I grew up with.....

    Oh well, now that I picture a heaven where Phil Roberston is running around in camoflage shooting everything to death, I don't want to go there. It sounds quite scary.

    Oh wait, there are no animals in heaven. OR at least some peoples heaven. Whos heaven are we taking about again.....?

    Imagine theres no heaven........ That means no HEll.

    I guess we are all saved!!!

  • #88
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    No, in pastafarianism, we only have heaven but not hell.

  • #89
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Even still, with a reward at the end, there is no purpose for us doing good during our lives.

    In other words, we do good cause we get a reward. But philisophically "what is good about doing something for a reward"??

    Its no longer good, its selfish.
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  • #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Are you a woman? Because:

    'Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.' (I Timothy 2:11-14)

    Well, I was just quoting the scripture.
    You're quoting out of context to make your point. Why is a non-believing person using a source they mock to make a point? Why don't you use worldly sources?

  • #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    There are non-sinners in christianity?
    There are saved sinners in 'Christianity', as you call it, that continue to sin but strive not to with the help of the resident Holy Spirit.

  • #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    Even still, with a reward at the end, there is no purpose for us doing good during our lives.

    In other words, we do good cause we get a reward. But philisophically "what is good about doing something for a reward"??

    Its no longer good, its selfish.
    Yeah, it's that selfishness again. Started with Lucifer wanted to be God (ref. Isaiah 14:13-15). When it is about what I get, what I deserve, what rewards I earn, ..., then the focus is off the grace and mercy from God. It is me-centered instead of God-centered. As one contemplates and is prompted to (Lordship) salvation, there is a cost... a huge cost. Note Luke 9:23-27:

    23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

    Study this passage as I have done enough preaching already.
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  • #93
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pi314CA View Post
    Yeah, it's that selfishness again. Started with Lucifer wanted to be God (ref. Isaiah 14:13-15). When it is about what I get, what I deserve, what rewards I earn, ..., then the focus is off the grace and mercy from God. It is me-centered instead of God-centered. As one contemplates and is prompted to (Lordship) salvation, there is a cost... a huge cost. Note Luke 9:23-27:

    23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

    Study this passage as I have done enough preaching already.
    But this scripture reads equally to me as much as to anyone else.
    But Maria has already told me that just for being the human God created, I am already condemned and going to her version of Hell.
    That contridicts what this scripture says.

    You see, a gay person is no different than a dyslexic person or a blind person or an epileptic or a hyperactive person or a manic depressive or even a schizophrenic. You believe homosexuality to be a behavior. But it is not. I am not sexually active but that does not make me straight. I am still a gay person whos internal emotions are exactly the same as yours. No action is required to be called gay. I am a natural phenomenon as much as any other. You can not tell me or any of these people they are denied of grace because they are not perfect human specimans. No one is perfect. And they are not sinners because they can not see or get depressed or "hear voices".

    maybe 2 thousand years ago, people believed "gay" to be a behavior. But since it is already acknowldeged that it is not a behavior, it is a state of being just like heterosexuality, you can not condemn a person to Hell for "being". You believe your God made me and you. Did he get one of us wrong??

    IT hardly seems fair to throw me to the trash for being.
    The God that I was raised to believe in, in both the Catholic and Baptist church does not throw his chidlren away for "being".
    We all sin, and we all have a right to the heaven you profess to believe in.
    iTs wrong to say there are no gay people in heaven. That is not the christain belief.

    There are "all kinds" of Gods children in heaven, if you believe the scriptures laid forth in the bible.

    The problem seems to be that christians want to believe some parts of the bible and not others.
    And the one part that they seem completely fixated on is "sexuality".

    As if nothing else is as great or as horrid in Gods eyes.

    IF I were born on a desert island and never had sex, I would still be gay.
    Am I sstill condemned to the hell that Maria has concocked for me?

  • #94
    Ultimate Carrie Fan supercarriefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pi314CA View Post
    You're quoting out of context to make your point. Why is a non-believing person using a source they mock to make a point? Why don't you use worldly sources?
    The poster in question seems to enjoy posting articles relating to Christianity just to mock the religion. It's getting old.

    Anyway, it is nice to see some here having a civilized discussion on the issues at hand. It's interesting to read everyone's point of view. If nothing else, Phil Robertson has certainly got people talking about social issues.
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  • #95
    Ultimate Carrie Fan supercarriefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    But this scripture reads equally to me as much as to anyone else.
    But Maria has already told me that just for being the human God created, I am already condemned and going to her version of Hell.
    That contridicts what this scripture says.

    You see, a gay person is no different than a dyslexic person or a blind person or an epileptic or a hyperactive person or a manic depressive or even a schizophrenic. You believe homosexuality to be a behavior. But it is not. I am not sexually active but that does not make me straight. I am still a gay person whos internal emotions are exactly the same as yours. No action is required to be called gay. I am a natural phenomenon as much as any other. You can not tell me or any of these people they are denied of grace because they are not perfect human specimans. No one is perfect. And they are not sinners because they can not see or get depressed or "hear voices".

    maybe 2 thousand years ago, people believed "gay" to be a behavior. But since it is already acknowldeged that it is not a behavior, it is a state of being just like heterosexuality, you can not condemn a person to Hell for "being". You believe your God made me and you. Did he get one of us wrong??

    IT hardly seems fair to throw me to the trash for being.
    The God that I was raised to believe in, in both the Catholic and Baptist church does not throw his chidlren away for "being".
    We all sin, and we all have a right to the heaven you profess to believe in.
    iTs wrong to say there are no gay people in heaven. That is not the christain belief.

    There are "all kinds" of Gods children in heaven, if you believe the scriptures laid forth in the bible.

    The problem seems to be that christians want to believe some parts of the bible and not others.
    And the one part that they seem completely fixated on is "sexuality".

    As if nothing else is as great or as horrid in Gods eyes.

    IF I were born on a desert island and never had sex, I would still be gay.
    Am I sstill condemned to the hell that Maria has concocked for me?
    Great post, Patrick.
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  • #96
    Insane Carrie Fan carebear4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercarriefan View Post
    The poster in question seems to enjoy posting articles relating to Christianity just to mock the religion. It's getting old.

    Anyway, it is nice to see some here having a civilized discussion on the issues at hand. It's interesting to read everyone's point of view. If nothing else, Phil Robertson has certainly got people talking about social issues.
    I value the criticism the "poster in question" chooses to level at the religion, although it does appear to me that Hilary is relatively unbiased in his attitudes towards all religions.

    Just thought I'd state that what might be "getting old" for some is still very valued information to me.
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  • #97
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    I to find it interesting, partically cause I agree that it seems to come from an unbiased (or at least "equally biased") point of view. So it is never intended to force a belief on anyone.

    The biggest issue that every major religion faces is "exclusivity" in a world where young people are growing up in a small world that "includes everybody".

    If the new generation is learning to "include" and not "exclude" than most of the major religions will fall apart.

    What you end up with is a large global attitude with small pockets of religious extemism.
    And that is happening right here in the USA as much as anywhere else.

    Most people who agree with Phil R. think they are in the majority because so many of them took the opportunty to shout fromt he roof tops that everyone is allowed to dedgrate gays blacks and women.
    But what they do not realize is that most of America ignored his rants in the first place as being complete garbage thrown out from an extremist.

    So they seem to feel they won something. And I am not sure what it is they think they won. Phils right to point out his idea of other peoples sin I guess??

    Nice guy!

  • #98
    Carrie Guru allamericangirl8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    But Maria
    First of all, I just wanted to say your southern California-ness is showing. x)

    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    You see, a gay person is no different than a dyslexic person or a blind person or an epileptic or a hyperactive person or a manic depressive or even a schizophrenic.
    At the risk of derailing this thread, I just wanted to ask: why do you (and other people) liken yourself to a mental disorder? It just seems like a bad idea to me. There have been so many attempts to "cure" gay people. I understand the way you're doing that in context, but wouldn't associating the two make things worse?

    That's why I think it's a bad idea to constantly argue that gays should have rights (I realize I'm talking about a different issue right now, what with you talking religion and me talking politics, but tangents) because they were "born that way." It's a lose-lose situation -- if scientists find indisputable proof that people are born gay, people will work on finding a cure; if scientists find indisputable proof that people choose to be gay (which would probably turn the world upside-down because it is so against basic logic), welp, you lose.
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  • #99
    Obsessed Carrie Fan Carrie&Taylor's Avatar
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    Cannot believe you people are still arguing about this.
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  • #100
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allamericangirl8 View Post
    First of all, I just wanted to say your southern California-ness is showing. x)



    At the risk of derailing this thread, I just wanted to ask: why do you (and other people) liken yourself to a mental disorder? It just seems like a bad idea to me. There have been so many attempts to "cure" gay people. I understand the way you're doing that in context, but wouldn't associating the two make things worse?

    That's why I think it's a bad idea to constantly argue that gays should have rights (I realize I'm talking about a different issue right now, what with you talking religion and me talking politics, but tangents) because they were "born that way." It's a lose-lose situation -- if scientists find indisputable proof that people are born gay, people will work on finding a cure; if scientists find indisputable proof that people choose to be gay (which would probably turn the world upside-down because it is so against basic logic), welp, you lose.
    I appreciate your thoughts on it. and yes you are right, it is a bit of a no-win.

    The reason I associate it with a "disorder" is mostly because though it is a "natural occurance" that developes during puberty just like with anyones natural sexuality, it should also be considered "abnormal" only because it only afflicts 10% of the worlds people. Which means it is not the natural order of things.
    And of course since with all species of animal the only real purpose to exist is to procreate and advance the species, it is abnormal to have an animal that is attracted to the same sex.

    Its natural!! It occures in nature. But it is not the natural order of things.
    Therefore it is not "normal".
    Also, you have to realize that as soon as people realize that it is a natural occuring phenomenon just like anyother, than it is obviosly cruel to degrade someone for it, including religions that used to percecute people with all kinds of afflictions as if they were "abominations" just like they treat gays now.

    I understand that from a political arguement you would want to argue that homosexuality is just as normal and natural as anyone else. But the truth is, it is not. It is an abnormality. And therefore any effort to change someone is only met with harm confussion alienation and failure.

    And you are right, in the same way that one day people will be able to choose their childs eye color and hair color, they are going to be able to make sure the child is "normal" sexually. And I personally think that is fantastic. As a gay man you can not possibly understand what it feels like to grow up in a world that you are not considered a part of. Every single aspect of the way the world evolved with Man on it is built around procreation. And gay people can not be a part of that. So why not make them straight. Its a more natural state of being.
    None of this is to suggest that gay is "bad", it is not bad. But its incredibly difficult for a person to have to live with. So in the same way we might one day be without dislexia, maybe we will be without gay people.

    Life will be more boring for sure!!!!!!! But at least those people will not be percecuted anymore.


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