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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    btw, even when I get bad service I usually leave a full tip.
    everyone can have a bad day. I should not with-hold pay for it.
    But that is just me. I also understand anyone who feels that if you are paying for service, than it should be decent service.
    I too always leave a tip....you might have been the one nice person that server waited on all day. We must also remember the server is not responsible for a late or badly cooked meal. As far as my 20% tip, I find it easier to figure in my head rather than look the fool with a calculator. 10% doubled is so easy that even the most math challenged should be able to figure it.

  • #22
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearball49 View Post
    I too always leave a tip....you might have been the one nice person that server waited on all day. We must also remember the server is not responsible for a late or badly cooked meal. As far as my 20% tip, I find it easier to figure in my head rather than look the fool with a calculator. 10% doubled is so easy that even the most math challenged should be able to figure it.
    Ha ha, exactly. (but I just wanted people to think I was being generous) ha ha

  • #23
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    The Pastor has done absolutely nothing right, there's no two sides of it.

    1. The service charge is stated on the menu and by ordering food, she is legally agreeing to pay the said amount of extra charge. She's breaking the law by refusing to do so.

    2. If you, for some reason, don't agree with the service charge, you should a) never go to the restaurant again, or not go there in the first place; b) talk to the manager, the person who really decides on this sort of stuff.

    3. It was very disrespectful of her to bully the server(s) by refusing to pay when they still have to pay for the taxes of this non-existence tip payment.

    4. It was very irrelevant & inappropriate for her to claim that she didn't have to pay anything (Notice the 0?) because she gives God 10%.
    - America is not a Christian nation
    - She didn't even pay 10%
    - Not everybody is a follower of God, and the same rule should not be applied to everyone
    - She didn't give God 10%
    - God didn't serve her table
    - That was very rude



    As for the one who got fired, it was the one who posted the receipt onto the Internet, not the one who served her. You can argue that she has violated the privacy of the Pastor, but:

    1. It doesn't excuse the Pastor.
    2. The receipt was no longer the property of the Pastor.
    3. The message was written by the Pastor, but was "sent" to the server(s), so the ownership has already been transferred from her to the servers.
    4. There's her name, but no other personal information.

    And it was revolting for her to not feeling sorry for what she had done but instead of place the blame on other people, to the extent that getting some poor lady fired.

  • #24
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ps?INTCMP=SRCH

    I was a waitress at Applebee's restaurant in Saint Louis. I was fired Wednesday for posting a picture on Reddit.com of a note a customer left on a bill. I posted it on the web as a light-hearted joke.
    This didn't even happen at my table. The note was left for another server, who allowed me to take a picture of it at the end of the night.
    Someone had scribbled on the receipt, "I give God 10%. Why do you get 18?"
    I assumed the customer's signature was illegible, but I quickly started receiving messages containing Facebook profile links and websites, asking me to confirm the identity of the customer. I refused to confirm any of them, and all were incorrect.
    I worked with the Reddit moderators to remove any personal information. I wanted to protect the identity of both my fellow server and the customer. I had no intention of starting a witch-hunt or hurting anyone.
    Now I've been fired.
    The person who wrote the note came across an article about it, called the Applebee's location, and demanded everyone be fired -- me, the server who allowed me to take the picture, the manager on duty at the time, the manager not on duty at the time, everyone. It seems I was fired not because Applebee's was represented poorly, not because I did anything illegal or against company policy, but because I embarrassed this person.
    In light of the situation, I would like to make a statement on behalf of wait staff everywhere: We make $3.50 an hour. Most of my paychecks are less than pocket change because I have to pay taxes on the tips I make.
    After sharing my tips with hosts, bussers, and bartenders, I make less than $9 an hour on average, before taxes. I am expected to skip bathroom breaks if we are busy. I go hungry all day if I have several busy tables to work. I am expected to work until 1:30am and then come in again at 10:30am to open the restaurant.
    I have worked 12-hour double shifts without a chance to even sit down. I am expected to portray a canned personality that has been found to be least offensive to the greatest amount of people. And I am expected to do all of this, every day, and receive change, or even nothing, in return. After all that, I can be fired for "embarrassing" someone, who directly insults his or her server on religious grounds.
    In this economy, $3.50 an hour doesn't cut it. I can't pay half my bills. Like many, I would love to see a reasonable, non-tip-dependent wage system for service workers like they have in other countries. But the system being flawed is not an excuse for not paying for services rendered.
    I need tips to pay my bills. All waiters do. We spend an hour or more of our time befriending you, making you laugh, getting to know you, and making your dining experience the best it can be. We work hard. We care. We deserve to be paid for that.
    I am trying to stand up for all of us who work for just a few dollars an hour at places like Applebee's. Whether a chain steakhouse or a black-tie establishment, tipping is not optional. It is how we get paid.
    I posted a picture to make people laugh, but now I want to make a serious point: Things like this happen to servers all the time. People seem to think that the easiest way to save money on a night out is to skip the tip.
    I can't understand why I was fired over this. I was well liked and respected at Applebee's. My sales were high, my managers had no problems with me, and I was even hoping to move up to management soon. When I posted this, I didn't represent Applebee's in a bad light. In fact, I didn't represent them at all.
    I did my best to protect the identity of all parties involved. I didn't break any specific guidelines in the company handbook – I checked. But because this person got embarrassed that their selfishness was made public, Applebee's has made it clear that they would rather lose a dedicated employee than an angry customer. That's a policy I can't understand.
    I am equally baffled about how a religious tithe is in any way related to paying for services at a restaurant. I can understand why someone could be upset with an automatic gratuity. However, it's a plainly stated Applebee's policy that a tip is added automatically for parties over eight like the one this customer was part of. I cannot control that kind of tip; it's done by the computer that the orders are put into. I've been stiffed on tips before, but this is the first time I've seen the "Big Man" used as reasoning.
    Obviously the person who wrote this note wanted it seen by someone. It's strange that now that the audience is wider than just the server, the person is ashamed.
    I have no agenda here. I seek no revenge against the note writer. I have no interest in exposing their identity, and, at this point, I'm not even sure I want my job back. I was just trying to make a joke, but I came home unemployed.
    I've been waiting tables to save up some money so I could finally go to college, so I could get an education that would qualify me for a job that doesn't force me to sell my personality for pocket change.
    While this story has garnered immense media attention, my story is not uncommon. Bad tips and harsh notes are all part of the job. People get fired to keep customers happy every day.
    As this story has gotten popular, I've received inquiries as to where people can send money to support me. As a broke kid trying to get into college, it's certainly appealing, but I'd really rather you make a difference to your next server. I'd rather you keep that money and that generosity for the next time you eat out.



    ---


    Apparently the Pastor actually tried to get literally everyone working in the restaurant, including staff who were off duty, fired.

  • #25
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    wow that is just crazy. People are just whack.

  • #26
    Carrie Guru epicamends's Avatar
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    That server seems very intelligent and well-read. As a former server, I definitely sympathize.

    One thing that I don't understand - how is it even legal for servers to have a wage of $3.50/hour? In Canada, every person must make at least minimum wage, even servers. Minimum wage varies depending on each province, ranging from $9.75/hour in Alberta to $11/hour in Nunavut. Some of the minimum wages vary for liquour servers, but it's always at least $9/hour. I can't imagine making only $3.50/hour. There's no possible way anybody could make a decent living on that, even with good tips. They'd have to get amazing tips on top of that wage to just break even on bills, I'd imagine. Craziness.

  • #27
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epicamends View Post
    That server seems very intelligent and well-read. As a former server, I definitely sympathize.

    One thing that I don't understand - how is it even legal for servers to have a wage of $3.50/hour? In Canada, every person must make at least minimum wage, even servers. Minimum wage varies depending on each province, ranging from $9.75/hour in Alberta to $11/hour in Nunavut. Some of the minimum wages vary for liquour servers, but it's always at least $9/hour. I can't imagine making only $3.50/hour. There's no possible way anybody could make a decent living on that, even with good tips. They'd have to get amazing tips on top of that wage to just break even on bills, I'd imagine. Craziness.
    Well some people give a lot of tips. I believe Taylor Swift gives 70%, but yes, in general they are poor either way.

    And being poor is one thing, being financial unstable is another. And working as a waiter probably means you can't work another job either. It's just too much work to do.

    I believe they don't have to be paid minimum wage because 'expected tips' are counted towards their 'salary' as well. Which is why those potentially non-existence tips are taxed as well.

    I think in the rest of the world does not work that way. In Hong Kong, for example, nobody is obliged to give tips, and if we give nothing, nobody will blame anyone. But in a lot of restaurants, there's a set 10% "service charge" a la the one here, but everybody has to be paid minimum wage regardless. Coffee shops work slightly differently. Some shops require customers to also add a fixed charity donation to the bill. Tips are not taxed. Most people who go to bars, decent restaurants, quality Cafes would pay tips on top of the service charge.

    In England, I heard it's culturally very different. I heard across Europe the "tip" has been counted towards the bill already, but of course you're always welcome to tip more. And in bars, you are actually supposed to treat the bartender a drink (S/he is supposed to take an inexpensive one).

  • #28
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    First, I learned something new today. Every State has their own requirements on tipped employees. I kept reading where the wage for the waitress was around $3.50 plus tips. I must admit I was surprised, I live in California and had never heard that previously. Second, I understood that the paster was rude but was she required to pay the 18%. I admit again to generally not paying any attention because my husband usually pays the bill, and we are sensitive to tipping because out daughter was a hostess, and our niece is a waitress. The following is California law, and rules for tipping. I also asked my niece what she thought of the situation, and what she thought should have happened to the waitresses.

    First, in California every tipped person gets min wage which is 8.10 (or close whatever the min wage is now) an hour, tips are taxed at a higher rate. If someone objects to the printed % tip posted at my niece's place of business the tip requirement is waived (every rest. has their own requirement, it is not a law) and you can choose to tip or not. Sar was as surprised as I was that tipped employees in some states only get half the min wage...not so in California.

    Second, I ask Sar what she thought should happen to the waitress that posted the receipt, remembering that both she and I thought the Pastor's comments were rude. She said that if she were going to post it she would have ensured the Pastor's name was not revealed. Had she done the same thing she too would be fired. Almost daily she deals with people who are rude, either having a bad day, or don't like the amount of their bill. As part of her job as a server (really waitresses are called servers now in California) she at times gets great tips and at other times not so great.

    Hopefully this is a lesson learned for both. Don't post someone's personal info regardless how rude they were, and second treat everyone with the same respect you want.

  • #29
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Well the one who posted it believed that the name was not intelligible. And she was right. People thought that was a man even. Only the Pastor's friends recognised her.

    And yes, the Pastor certainly could object to the tip, but the one to do it would be to talk to the manager, not to leave a note to a poor waitress saying she isn't paying because she believes in God, when in fact she doesn't even pay 10% of her income to God, but takes all the donations from the members of her Church.

  • #30
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    [QUOTE=clh_hilary;4418182]Well the one who posted it believed that the name was not intelligible. And she was right. People thought that was a man even. Only the Pastor's friends recognised her.

    And yes, the Pastor certainly could object to the tip, but the one to do it would be to talk to the manager, not to leave a note to a poor waitress saying she isn't paying because she believes in God, when in fact she doesn't even pay 10% of her income to God, but takes all the donations from the members of her Church.[/QUOT

    I'm not disagreeing with you. I wanted Sar's opinion as a server, and like I said I wasn't aware that in some states a server only gets half of min wage because of tips. The fact is some people (it doesn't matter how many) recognized her name and there obviously (seeing the receipt) was NO attempt to hide the name. The server should not have posted it without blacking out the name. That doesn't mean that the pastor was not rude, and handled the situation poorly. Those are two different issues. Because the pastor was insufferable and certainly took her over the top behavior out on the server does not give the server the right to 'get back.' What the pastor wrote on the receipt is a red herring. It the pastor gets 10 % or 80 % percent and wrote that on the receipt it doesn't give the server the right to post it without ensuring (and if I can read the name clearly so can everyone else) the name is blacked off. I have sympathy for the server, it would be funny to share a receipt written on like the one the Pastor wrote, but taking a picture and posting it is an act done deliberately and can't be tolerated by any employer.

  • #31
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    Wow, I did not realize the laws were different when it applies to tips. When I lived in NY, I waitressed in 1989. I was paid $2.30 an hour. I do not remember the exact minimum wage, but I do know that the reason they did not have to pay minimum wage is that they figured what your tips woud be would bring you to munimum wage. I used to get furious when I was told to claim $4.00 an hour for tips on a bad night. Obviously minimum wage was around $6.50 an hour at the time. There were good nights and bad and yes we usually ended up making better than minimum wage but it is a very difficult job. I have the gift of gab and am usually able to handle anyone and make people happy they had me as a server, but you still get the blame for anybody that may have angered them during the day. At least if you work as a waitress in a state like California, you know going in that you are going to be faring better than the kids flipping burgers at McDonalds. Regardless of her reason no Christian, especially a paster should have been so begrudging of an expected tip. Everyone, regardless of their station in life has the expectation of payment for services rendered and it was wrong to bring God into it. Not everyone has those beliefs and that would not hold up as a reason for noncompliance with tipping practices. I do know with larger parties, it is usually stated right on the menu that a specified gratuity will be added to the bill and there will be no splittig of said bill.

  • #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearball49 View Post
    Wow, I did not realize the laws were different when it applies to tips. When I lived in NY, I waitressed in 1989. I was paid $2.30 an hour. I do not remember the exact minimum wage, but I do know that the reason they did not have to pay minimum wage is that they figured what your tips woud be would bring you to munimum wage. I used to get furious when I was told to claim $4.00 an hour for tips on a bad night. Obviously minimum wage was around $6.50 an hour at the time. There were good nights and bad and yes we usually ended up making better than minimum wage but it is a very difficult job. I have the gift of gab and am usually able to handle anyone and make people happy they had me as a server, but you still get the blame for anybody that may have angered them during the day. At least if you work as a waitress in a state like California, you know going in that you are going to be faring better than the kids flipping burgers at McDonalds. Regardless of her reason no Christian, especially a paster should have been so begrudging of an expected tip. Everyone, regardless of their station in life has the expectation of payment for services rendered and it was wrong to bring God into it. Not everyone has those beliefs and that would not hold up as a reason for noncompliance with tipping practices. I do know with larger parties, it is usually stated right on the menu that a specified gratuity will be added to the bill and there will be no splittig of said bill.
    I didn't know there were differences either. You are right that a server in California knows going in that they will at least make min wage, that is also probably why their tips are taxed at a higher rate. I don't disagree about the Pastor, my only point was that as bad as her behavior was it didn't give the server the right to post the info.
    Last edited by oldyfan; 02-04-2013 at 01:11 AM.

  • #33
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Maybe "tip" should just be renamed "service charge".

  • #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Maybe "tip" should just be renamed "service charge".
    i actually used to think the word "tip" implied it was extra cash to be given for at least "decent" service.

    if restaurant servers actually depended on the tips, the word "tip" is misleading, because it actually gave me the impression that if they gave crappy service the customer had a right not to "tip". if however, it is socially unacceptable not to tip even in such cases and the "tip" is expected, then put in a mandatory "service charge", because that is really what it is. Thats how it is in many parts of Asia and there's no confusion, and no one feeling bad.

    I actually wonder if the current system of servers depending so much on "tips" has always been in place since the custom started in the US, or is something that has developed in the past 20 years or so. i wouldn't be surprised if the latter

  • #35
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    IT is true that "tips" used to simply be a "gratuity" and the system has managed to take advantage of that and use it against the server.
    There is no reason in the world why a server should not get the same minimum wage as any other worker.
    The "tip" should not be expected or demanded and it certainly should not be considered "pay".
    But it is, and it does, and therefore, once again, the consumer takes it on the chin and the large francise makes more money!
    "America! God shed his grace on thee"!

  • #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    IT is true that "tips" used to simply be a "gratuity" and the system has managed to take advantage of that and use it against the server.
    There is no reason in the world why a server should not get the same minimum wage as any other worker.
    The "tip" should not be expected or demanded and it certainly should not be considered "pay".
    But it is, and it does, and therefore, once again, the consumer takes it on the chin and the large francise makes more money!
    "America! God shed his grace on thee"!
    It would be interesting to know which states lawfully require the servers get min wage besides California.

  • #37
    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Well, this "tip" has been marked on the bill.

  • #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Well, this "tip" has been marked on the bill.
    I mean outside of the 'tip,' which states require the servers to be paid min wage. The tip is also marked on bills in Cal, but as my niece explained it's actually not a requirement if someone complains. If Sar does receive the 'tip' it's shared with others and then taxed at a higher rate than the required min wage salary she receives.

  • #39
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    This is from the US Dept of Labor for 2013. There are far too many states where tipped and non-tipped employees don't receive the same min wage.

    States with Minimum rate same for tipped and non-tipped employees
    Alaska
    $7.75

    California
    $8.00

    Guam
    $6.55

    Minnesota:
    Large employer 2
    $6.15

    Small employer 2
    $5.25

    Montana:

    Business with gross annual sales over $110,000
    $7.65

    Business with gross annual sales of $110,000 or less
    $4.00

    Nevada
    $8.25
    $7.25
    With no health insurance benefits provided by employer and received by employee
    With health insurance benefits provided by employer and received by employee

    Oregon
    $8.95

    Washington
    $9.19

  • #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    But it is, and it does, and therefore, once again, the consumer takes it on the chin and the large francise makes more money!
    yeah, it seems to me the system of how servers are paid is just a way for the owners to make more $$$ and pass the paying of servers to the customers.


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