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Thread: Randy Goodman in Country Aircheck

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    Randy Goodman in Country Aircheck

    Jeremy Chua put an article on twitter. The title was, Randy Goodman, CEO of Sony Nashville on @CarrieUnderwood's departure from the label:

    Could someone put it here. Might be good for discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow1 View Post
    Jeremy Chua put an article on twitter. The title was, Randy Goodman, CEO of Sony Nashville on @CarrieUnderwood's departure from the label:

    Could someone put it here. Might be good for discussion.
    https://twitter.com/jeremy_chua/stat...20667027845120

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    Jeremy Chua has articles published on one of Jessica Northey's websites - however, although he doesn't seem to give a link for this tweet, it's actually an extract taken from an interview Randy Goodman gave to a Summer roundup in Country Aircheck. Jason Scott gave a link to the full article here:
    Summer 2017 Print Special by Country Aircheck - issuu


    In the quoted piece, Randy Goodman seems to make clear that he wasn't expecting Carrie's decision through the period that the four singles were rolled out, and thinks that they had made a good response to both the promotion and Carrie's hope to break through internationally.

    He mentioned that the first single, SB, gained an all-time record for one week adds on Mediabase. (In my view, this probably reflects the high anticipation for Carrie's new work, and the fact that SB was arguably seen by both many radio programmers and radio call-out listeners as a new stylistic breakthrough by Carrie, in a direction particularly comgenial to Country radio. Reading this board over the weeks when the era was drawing to a close, I saw a quite strong and persistent feeling among some fans that SB shouldn't have been a single - but I think there's a risk that this view skirts over the medium for which the choice was primarily meant. For radio, it was a very appropriate choice - and we shouldn't forget that Carrie's is a strongly radio-focused artist, using her radio hits to draw people to her live performances - which are, in practice, quite dominated by radio hits. Carrie has almost unquestioningly, and consistently, been the dominant female artist on Mainstream Country radio over the past decade - and, again, we shouldn't forget that she earns mechanical royalties for every radio broadcast of a song she wrote, which includes SB and H.
    I think some of the dislike of SB may be stylistic and thematic - which is fair enough - we all prefer different songs - but I think it's largely a mistake to exaggerate the extent to which non-core Country fans turned away from Storyteller because of songs like SB. Carrie has a very loyal fan base, and much of that base is focused on her personally, rather than on the style of particular songs. I doubt if she lost more fans than she gained from this varied - and often adventurous - album. Recorded music sales have been hit hard by a slow adaptation to changing consumption patterns, by easy access to online browsing, both legal and illegal, and by recent recessions which make many consumers reluctant to pay for both an album and a single they already own. I believe we sometimes exaggerate the extent to which Carrie must be an exception to the rest of her market - sailing to huge sales of the proportion only enjoyed by a small handful of Pop stars. Within her chosen field, Carrie remains dominant - and radio, and radio hit-led live performance , are the main components of that dominance.)


    Randy also mentions that he invited English (and perhaps other) music promoters to New York, for a presentation of Carrie's vision for future outreach. (I'd love to know more about this - who was invited, and what she (presumably) said about her vision, and what the reaction might have been. I suspect it may have been along the lines that the CAA rep handling her recent appearances gave at a London press conference, which was along the lines that she already has the performance credentials to appeal to people across the music spectrum, without changing her persona or genre identity - but we may never know the details)

    Despite apparently not expecting the move, Randy mentions in retrospect, her close relationship in early career to Cindy Mabe. (I did believe it had to be on the cards that Cindy's appointment as Nashville UMG President would be an attraction - especially as she has currently lacked a really top female artist - although there were no public hints of any move. The two collaborations of this era, with Sam Hunt and Keith Urban, were both with artists from the group sometimes described as "Cindy Mabe's Boys" - stylistically Pop-leaning top male performers, who currently dominate the chart.

    Finally, Randy does say, regretfully, that his efforts may have been "too little, too late" (It struck me, there, that there may be a hint that, despite feeling he tried, the situation before his arrival may have already created the possible desire for a move.)
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    (As this interview seems worth discussing, but is not connected with the Hollywood Star, do people think it should have a separate thread?)

    Another important point is where Randy says that, historically, the Mainstream Country sector has accounted for 10% of the overall recorded music market revenue. However, Mainstream Country fans have not adopted streaming, the main growth area, on the same scale as Pop and Hip Hop fans - so the Country share of the overall market has dropped to 6%.

    (In light of that, Carrie's recent stress on international breakthrough possibilities would make additional business sense)

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    I'm one of those that tend to agree with his statement that it was all "too little, too late." For the very reason most fans here share.....the promotion of Miranda continuously over all other artists in their "handbag." Stop! Don't even say it! There is nothing in Mirandas catalogue of music during those past several years that deserved the reverence they got. Yes I agree she had some winners...though I saw it then and see it still now....she's faded in glory since her very public marital demise. I don't want this to get into a heated discussion of Miranda and Carrie because that's not my intent. My intent is to show that I honestly think their label overdid the PUSHING of one female over the other. It's the very reason Miranda won female vocalist an insane number of times in a row. I think we clearly know she should not hold the record as a vocalist. I truly love some of her music but that was more than most of the public could accept and I believe has much to do with Carries move.

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    ^^^ if being honest, i have to agree......

    And they also over pushed many of their male label mates over Carrie as well....... Water over the dam now......
    Last edited by Pi314CA; 06-25-2017 at 09:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokyiiis View Post
    I'm one of those that tend to agree with his statement that it was all "too little, too late." For the very reason most fans here share.....the promotion of Miranda continuously over all other artists in their "handbag." Stop! Don't even say it! There is nothing in Mirandas catalogue of music during those past several years that deserved the reverence they got. Yes I agree she had some winners...though I saw it then and see it still now....she's faded in glory since her very public marital demise. I don't want this to get into a heated discussion of Miranda and Carrie because that's not my intent. My intent is to show that I honestly think their label overdid the PUSHING of one female over the other. It's the very reason Miranda won female vocalist an insane number of times in a row. I think we clearly know she should not hold the record as a vocalist. I truly love some of her music but that was more than most of the public could accept and I believe has much to do with Carries move.
    I understand there will always be a strong Carrie partiality on an open-discussion Carrie fan board - but I have to say, I think the expectations for "Carrie dominance" - or the perceived lack thereof - seem sometimes to become rather unrealistic. I follow both artists - currently more than any other artist - but fan rivalries have no appeal for me. All I can do in answer to this widespread (but I would venture to say, taken for granted and seldom supported by specific information) feeling that Carrie has received less promotion at Sony than Miranda has, is to give a few points that strike me. To me, the picture suggests the opposite.
    1. Miranda, in her time at Sony has been shunted between three different labels in the Group's stable (Epic Columbia, RCA). This implies disruption in her A & R and radio promotion teams on more occasions than most artists experience - people, of course, come and go - but there is every sign that Carrie has enjoyed more stability and more continuity on the promotional side)
    2. Carrie received heavy promotion from first album start - with the unusual debut achievement of four singles in the airplay top 2. It took Miranda seven singles to even break the top ten
    3. Carrie has had something like 23 airplay chart toppers. Miranda has had 3 (with a fourth duet with Keith Urban, and a Hot Country Songs topper duet with Carrie - a song which seemed an odd fit compared with the rest of her repertoire and was probably buoyed up, in large part, by support from Carrie fans)
    4. A calculation I posted in the Miranda thread (before the most recent releases) suggested that Miranda's average chart place for regular radio singles has been 14.5. Carrie's has been 1.4 (It's easy for fans to claim that Carrie's impressive radio figures have been due to more radio-friendly material, hard work, a great voice and stage presence, etc. - but anyone who knows radio will know that those things are no guarantee of consistent success on that level. Labels invest heavily in radio-courting promotion - and that degree of chart consistency can only be achieved by skill, experience, contacts and effort, in a symbiotic relationship between a promotional team and radio. There've even been occasional tweets by staff expressing relief when the hard slog and anxiety of a chart run is over!)
    5. As I'm really interested in what I can see in the ethos and content of a song as a work in the artistic stream of Country Music, I actually pay little attention to sales. But - judging by the often rather gloating tone of posts that crop up quite frequently in sundry threads, I'd hazard a guess that Miranda neither outsells Carrie, nor gets her shipment certifications as fast as Carrie. So be it - all hard work and knockout material by our heroine, with fan frenzy, and only minimal, grudging help from Sony? If I sound skeptical, I mean to take nothing from Carrie - only to suggest that a mixture of inputs is more realistic.
    6. Miranda's album output has, I feel owed more to word-of-mouth, performance, core support from Country diehards, Rock and Alternative fans to pad out the welcome, but patchy support from radio and Mainstream fans, critical & media approval, and a strong "conscience" vote from people working in the industry who, literally, do sometimes see her as "the Keeper of the Flame". I don't disregard Sony - but the best thing they seem to have done for Miranda is give her the independence she insisted on in her deal (and which has now been honoured by four successive label group chiefs). If you take "Platinum" as an example - the actual promotion sometimes seemed close to shambolic, with delays, announcement of singles that didn't appear, and little pushing to get behind those that did. A cynic would say the tactic has been to push the first two, and let the others sink or swim - and the present album hasn't even seen that. Much of promotion seems to rely on Miranda's plan of giving live exposure to as many tracks as possible, with tweets, song snippets and additional videos involving family and friends (even her grandmother and her ladies circle got into the spirit of it)

    On the evidence I've seen, I don't see much to complain of in Sony's promotion of Carrie's work - she has been their dominant female artist for more than a decade. To go further, I think they would have needed to push Carrie in directions her own remarks suggest she didn't want to go. (Whether that has changed radically, and she and UMG are planning a radical shift remains to be seen - but my instinct, based on what I see in Carrie's loyalty, personality, and apparent enjoyment of her role, is that the change may be more one of focus, efficiency, ideas and contacts - rather than a major change of style or direction.

    More than the supposed rivalry with Miranda (which I feel is more a fan phenomenon than a reality for the artists themselves) - I suspect a more likely catalyst for the change might have been the signing of Maren Morris (a slightly different age, some very Pop-influenced work - more reminiscent of the men's than of Carrie's chosen approach - and very strong approval from Randy Goodman, who made no bones about seeing her as the big achievement of his takeover)

    Given the narrow window for women in Mainstream promotion. it's not surprising if both Carrie and Miranda wouldn't be focusing on wider opportunities. It's hard to speak convincingly about Carrie's UMG plans, since so little has been revealed and we only have speculation. But we have seen a little more of Miranda's recent activity. She seems to be increasingly building up her long-term Alternative links, appearing interested in markets where her critical reception has been strong - not just Texas, but, for example, New York-New England, where the market is less Nashville-focused.
    She's also undertaking her first overseas tour, with what could seem rather ambitious venues (the Birmingham, West Midlands, date, in particular being booked for a large venue that could prove a real test). She included English and Irish writers on TWOTW, and I suspect this is all evidence of looking beyond a Nashville which seems increasingly out of step with the direction she's going - I would say, though, to supplement, rather than replace, her existing ties.
    Yesterday she tweeted praise for Ashley McBride "Little Dive Bar In Dahlonega - loved watching @ashleymcbryde at @LakeShakeFest. A GIRL singing a COUNTRY song she wrote. ". Combined with her women creators scholarship at Belmont, it wouldn't be surprising if she sought to expand Vanner Records to promote new artists, under Sony distribution. There's probably enough to keep her with Sony - but I think that owes more to the terms of her old record deal and her new imprint, than to any supposed super-promotion.

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    Randy Goodman in Country Aircheck

    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post
    I understand there will always be a strong Carrie partiality on an open-discussion Carrie fan board - but I have to say, I think the expectations for "Carrie dominance" - or the perceived lack thereof - seem sometimes to become rather unrealistic. I follow both artists - currently more than any other artist - but fan rivalries have no appeal for me. All I can do in answer to this widespread (but I would venture to say, taken for granted and seldom supported by specific information) feeling that Carrie has received less promotion at Sony than Miranda has, is to give a few points that strike me. To me, the picture suggests the opposite.
    1. Miranda, in her time at Sony has been shunted between three different labels in the Group's stable (Epic Columbia, RCA). This implies disruption in her A & R and radio promotion teams on more occasions than most artists experience - people, of course, come and go - but there is every sign that Carrie has enjoyed more stability and more continuity on the promotional side)
    2. Carrie received heavy promotion from first album start - with the unusual debut achievement of four singles in the airplay top 2. It took Miranda seven singles to even break the top ten
    3. Carrie has had something like 23 airplay chart toppers. Miranda has had 3 (with a fourth duet with Keith Urban, and a Hot Country Songs topper duet with Carrie - a song which seemed an odd fit compared with the rest of her repertoire and was probably buoyed up, in large part, by support from Carrie fans)
    4. A calculation I posted in the Miranda thread (before the most recent releases) suggested that Miranda's average chart place for regular radio singles has been 14.5. Carrie's has been 1.4 (It's easy for fans to claim that Carrie's impressive radio figures have been due to more radio-friendly material, hard work, a great voice and stage presence, etc. - but anyone who knows radio will know that those things are no guarantee of consistent success on that level. Labels invest heavily in radio-courting promotion - and that degree of chart consistency can only be achieved by skill, experience, contacts and effort, in a symbiotic relationship between a promotional team and radio. There've even been occasional tweets by staff expressing relief when the hard slog and anxiety of a chart run is over!)
    5. As I'm really interested in what I can see in the ethos and content of a song as a work in the artistic stream of Country Music, I actually pay little attention to sales. But - judging by the often rather gloating tone of posts that crop up quite frequently in sundry threads, I'd hazard a guess that Miranda neither outsells Carrie, nor gets her shipment certifications as fast as Carrie. So be it - all hard work and knockout material by our heroine, with fan frenzy, and only minimal, grudging help from Sony? If I sound skeptical, I mean to take nothing from Carrie - only to suggest that a mixture of inputs is more realistic.
    6. Miranda's album output has, I feel owed more to word-of-mouth, performance, core support from Country diehards, Rock and Alternative fans to pad out the welcome, but patchy support from radio and Mainstream fans, critical & media approval, and a strong "conscience" vote from people working in the industry who, literally, do sometimes see her as "the Keeper of the Flame". I don't disregard Sony - but the best thing they seem to have done for Miranda is give her the independence she insisted on in her deal (and which has now been honoured by four successive label group chiefs). If you take "Platinum" as an example - the actual promotion sometimes seemed close to shambolic, with delays, announcement of singles that didn't appear, and little pushing to get behind those that did. A cynic would say the tactic has been to push the first two, and let the others sink or swim - and the present album hasn't even seen that. Much of promotion seems to rely on Miranda's plan of giving live exposure to as many tracks as possible, with tweets, song snippets and additional videos involving family and friends (even her grandmother and her ladies circle got into the spirit of it)

    On the evidence I've seen, I don't see much to complain of in Sony's promotion of Carrie's work - she has been their dominant female artist for more than a decade. To go further, I think they would have needed to push Carrie in directions her own remarks suggest she didn't want to go. (Whether that has changed radically, and she and UMG are planning a radical shift remains to be seen - but my instinct, based on what I see in Carrie's loyalty, personality, and apparent enjoyment of her role, is that the change may be more one of focus, efficiency, ideas and contacts - rather than a major change of style or direction.

    More than the supposed rivalry with Miranda (which I feel is more a fan phenomenon than a reality for the artists themselves) - I suspect a more likely catalyst for the change might have been the signing of Maren Morris (a slightly different age, some very Pop-influenced work - more reminiscent of the men's than of Carrie's chosen approach - and very strong approval from Randy Goodman, who made no bones about seeing her as the big achievement of his takeover)

    Given the narrow window for women in Mainstream promotion. it's not surprising if both Carrie and Miranda wouldn't be focusing on wider opportunities. It's hard to speak convincingly about Carrie's UMG plans, since so little has been revealed and we only have speculation. But we have seen a little more of Miranda's recent activity. She seems to be increasingly building up her long-term Alternative links, appearing interested in markets where her critical reception has been strong - not just Texas, but, for example, New York-New England, where the market is less Nashville-focused.
    She's also undertaking her first overseas tour, with what could seem rather ambitious venues (the Birmingham, West Midlands, date, in particular being booked for a large venue that could prove a real test). She included English and Irish writers on TWOTW, and I suspect this is all evidence of looking beyond a Nashville which seems increasingly out of step with the direction she's going - I would say, though, to supplement, rather than replace, her existing ties.
    Yesterday she tweeted praise for Ashley McBride "Little Dive Bar In Dahlonega - loved watching @ashleymcbryde at @LakeShakeFest. A GIRL singing a COUNTRY song she wrote. ". Combined with her women creators scholarship at Belmont, it wouldn't be surprising if she sought to expand Vanner Records to promote new artists, under Sony distribution. There's probably enough to keep her with Sony - but I think that owes more to the terms of her old record deal and her new imprint, than to any supposed super-promotion.
    I move this discussion to a new thread since it didn't fit in the other discussion. I hope Farawayhills is ok with that.

    I think you may be giving Sony too much credit and Carrie too little but I take your point. I agree that the notion that Sony 'favored' Miranda is likely more perception than reality and stems largely from the awards discrepancy. None of us really know how much influence the labels really have on awards and while Carrie and Miranda were both under the Sony umbrella they had separate teams.

    My perceptions from the Gooman article is that you likely have a point that the signing of Maren Morris may have influenced the decision. The more salient point for me was his comments on the upheaval that Carrie went through with Sony over the last few years and him coming in being too little too late. Others made a similar point that Sony did a good job with promotion. I do think Goodman's public emphasis on signing new acts may have played a part. The bottom line is Carrie had fulfilled her commitment to Sony and was a highly sought after commodity who took what she considered the best offer and there were likely dozens of factors that played into that decision. It will be interesting to see if they end up keeping Kenny
    Chesney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokyiiis View Post
    I'm one of those that tend to agree with his statement that it was all "too little, too late." For the very reason most fans here share.....the promotion of Miranda continuously over all other artists in their "handbag." Stop! Don't even say it! There is nothing in Mirandas catalogue of music during those past several years that deserved the reverence they got. Yes I agree she had some winners...though I saw it then and see it still now....she's faded in glory since her very public marital demise. I don't want this to get into a heated discussion of Miranda and Carrie because that's not my intent. My intent is to show that I honestly think their label overdid the PUSHING of one female over the other. It's the very reason Miranda won female vocalist an insane number of times in a row. I think we clearly know she should not hold the record as a vocalist. I truly love some of her music but that was more than most of the public could accept and I believe has much to do with Carries move.
    But we also have to remember that Miranda is with WME. When something like 23 out of 27 CMA awards go to WME artists every year, they pretty much have a lock on that awards show. I don't know what Sony did or didn't do regarding the CMAs with respect to Carrie and Miranda, so I can't speak to that. Does anybody know if being with UMG will give Carrie a better chance against WME?

    I'm sure Sony probably did try to push Miranda up the charts, but why wouldn't they? They did the same with Brad when some of his songs weren't doing that well. Having said that, they should not have let male artists get to #1 before Carrie, when she clearly had the position and momentum, and I will never forgive Sony for SITW not getting to #1. That was an outrage. It was incredibly popular and an important song to Carrie, personally. Perhaps SITW not getting #1 started Carrie thinking about making a change?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethelu View Post
    But we also have to remember that Miranda is with WME. When something like 23 out of 27 CMA awards go to WME artists every year, they pretty much have a lock on that awards show. I don't know what Sony did or didn't do regarding the CMAs with respect to Carrie and Miranda, so I can't speak to that. Does anybody know if being with UMG will give Carrie a better chance against WME?

    I'm sure Sony probably did try to push Miranda up the charts, but why wouldn't they? They did the same with Brad when some of his songs weren't doing that well. Having said that, they should not have let male artists get to #1 before Carrie, when she clearly had the position and momentum, and I will never forgive Sony for SITW not getting to #1. That was an outrage. It was incredibly popular and an important song to Carrie, personally. Perhaps SITW not getting #1 started Carrie thinking about making a change?
    That right there is what I am waiting to see.... Will be the true test of the WME strong hold......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethelu View Post
    But we also have to remember that Miranda is with WME. When something like 23 out of 27 CMA awards go to WME artists every year, they pretty much have a lock on that awards show. I don't know what Sony did or didn't do regarding the CMAs with respect to Carrie and Miranda, so I can't speak to that. Does anybody know if being with UMG will give Carrie a better chance against WME?

    I'm sure Sony probably did try to push Miranda up the charts, but why wouldn't they? They did the same with Brad when some of his songs weren't doing that well. Having said that, they should not have let male artists get to #1 before Carrie, when she clearly had the position and momentum, and I will never forgive Sony for SITW not getting to #1. That was an outrage. It was incredibly popular and an important song to Carrie, personally. Perhaps SITW not getting #1 started Carrie thinking about making a change?
    My guess would be that the only thing likely to give anyone traction with WME is to be represented by WME. Carrie is probably with CAA because she started with Simon Fuller, who has strong links with that agency. I think she would now be quite free to change if she wanted to. (That, though is no guarantee - most Mainstream Country artists with a realistic chance of winning awards are already represented by WME - there are exceptions, but it's definitely the agency of choice in the Nashville format. Hence joining them is in itself no guarantee that you would become their top priority).

    WME is a booking agency - it has close links with Live Nation, a tour management firm. The combination gives them a powerful grip on live performance touring - which is increasingly attractive to artists in an era of falling recording revenues, and explains why so many artists are under that umbrella. It is run at the top today by Ari Emmanuel, an astute business operator, in the "Hollywood Mogul" tradition, with alleged ambitions for expansion.

    By contrast, the Music Row label groups are witnessing a decline in finance, power and influence - though this is partly offset by their strong links to radio - which is still regarded as of major importance to Mainstream Country. Of the label groups, I would say that UMG are definitely the strongest on the current scene, and the one regarded as having the most ideas, and the most willingness to look beyond genre boundaries.

    Potentially, they could help Carrie in many ways, but these are mainly in the sphere of new work and new promotional opportunities. I seriously doubt if any major artist plans such changes on the basis of what awards they might or might not win. Awards are a bonus, and a very welcome endorsement for your work - but Carrie seems genuinely pleased with the endorsements her work gets from fan votes. Further industry endorsement would always be affected by the preferences, views of relative importance of styles, and other biases among the various categories of CMA voters - most of whom have no ties to any particular agency or label. Making a career change in the hope that a new label would influence the award voting more than a dominant agency, in a once a year process, would seem too problematic and too flimsy for an artist to take seriously.

    Historically, commercial success has been most important in award voting in the case of breakout artists, who make spectacular and unusual impact when relatively new - and perceived artistic judgments have been more important for established artists. However, the CMA is a trade association, and some categories will always vote on a meal-ticket basis. If Miranda is seen as going into Americana free fall (remember, the Hippies, Hilbillies and Has-beens jibe) - those categories may desert her in droves. If the artistic perception prevails , they might still only give her album a "goodbye" vote. And with serious new possibilities on the scene, there's no guarantee any votes lost by ML would go to CU.
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    As a longtime fan, I find it frustrating to see some fans are NEVER satisfied. It's not like she has an INSANE hit single streak or anything...or hasn't performed on countless non-Nashville events like the Emmys, etc. Some of you put too much stock in awards.

    At the end of the day, it should be about the music. Plain and simple.

    Who knows why Carrie left...as has been pointed out, she has known Cindy Mabe for a long time. She knew her contract was up with Sony and likely wanted a fresh start AND to reconnect with someone who was an early supporter of hers.

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    In a way I feel sorry for him. He is going to be known as the guy who lost Carrie Underwood. But I also feel like he thought he was doing all this stuff for her when in reality that wasn't very much. Carrie is an established super star and I think they thought that they didn't have to do much because she was going to continue to be a super star. I think when she said she wanted more international promotion, what the label did was peanuts. I think what brought her to UMG is that she's going to do more international touring and they are going to make it happen.

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    Thanks for posting the thread, Sco - I agree , the discussion belongs in a separate thread. (Replies are still being posted in both threads - so perhaps the moderators could unify the posts here, if that doesn't involve too much hassle ?)

    Meanwhile, this was what I said most recently in the other thread, in reply to Ethelu's post on whether UMG influence might offset WME influence in CMA award voting:

    My guess would be that the only thing likely to give anyone traction with WME is to be represented by WME. Carrie is probably with CAA because she started with Simon Fuller, who has strong links with that agency. I think she would now be quite free to change if she wanted to. (That, though is no guarantee - most Mainstream Country artists with a realistic chance of winning awards are already represented by WME - there are exceptions, but it's definitely the agency of choice in the Nashville format. Hence joining them is in itself no guarantee that you would become their top priority).

    WME is a booking agency - it has close links with Live Nation, a tour management firm. The combination gives them a powerful grip on live performance touring - which is increasingly attractive to artists in an era of falling recording revenues, and explains why so many artists are under that umbrella. It is run at the top today by Ari Emmanuel, an astute business operator, in the "Hollywood Mogul" tradition, with alleged ambitions for expansion.

    By contrast, the Music Row label groups are witnessing a decline in finance, power and influence - though this is partly offset by their strong links to radio - which is still regarded as of major importance to Mainstream Country. Of the label groups, I would say that UMG are definitely the strongest on the current scene, and the one regarded as having the most ideas, and the most willingness to look beyond genre boundaries.

    Potentially, they could help Carrie in many ways, but these are mainly in the sphere of new work and new promotional opportunities. I seriously doubt if any major artist plans such changes on the basis of what awards they might or might not win. Awards are a bonus, and a very welcome endorsement for your work - but Carrie seems genuinely pleased with the endorsements her work gets from fan votes. Further industry endorsement would always be affected by the preferences, views of relative importance of styles, and other biases among the various categories of CMA voters - most of whom have no ties to any particular agency or label. Making a career change in the hope that a new label would influence the award voting more than a dominant agency, in a once a year process, would seem too problematic and too flimsy for an artist to take seriously.

    Historically, commercial success has been most important in award voting in the case of breakout artists, who make spectacular and unusual impact when relatively new - and perceived artistic judgments have been more important for established artists. However, the CMA is a trade association, and some categories will always vote on a meal-ticket basis. If Miranda is seen as going into Americana free fall (remember, the Hippies, Hilbillies and Has-beens jibe) - those categories may desert her in droves. If the artistic perception prevails , they might still only give her album a "goodbye" vote. And with serious new possibilities on the scene, there's no guarantee any votes lost by ML would go to CU.
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  • #15
    sco
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post
    Thanks for posting the thread, Sco - I agree , the discussion belongs in a separate thread. (Replies are still being posted in both threads - so perhaps the moderators could unify the posts here, if that doesn't involve too much hassle ?)
    ...
    Potentially, they could help Carrie in many ways, but these are mainly in the sphere of new work and new promotional opportunities. I seriously doubt if any major artist plans such changes on the basis of what awards they might or might not win. Awards are a bonus, and a very welcome endorsement for your work - but Carrie seems genuinely pleased with the endorsements her work gets from fan votes. Further industry endorsement would always be affected by the preferences, views of relative importance of styles, and other biases among the various categories of CMA voters - most of whom have no ties to any particular agency or label. Making a career change in the hope that a new label would influence the award voting more than a dominant agency, in a once a year process, would seem too problematic and too flimsy for an artist to take seriously.
    One again you make a good point. Carrie is essentially the CEO of a company worth millions of dollars with dozens of other people's livelihoods at stake. She's not going to make a business decision of this magnitude because her feelings are hurt or she wants to feed her ego with more awards. If awards factored in the equation o feel confident it was only as a reflection of other issues.
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  • #16
    Carrie Guru rainbow1's Avatar
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    Yep, as Goodman said, Carrie's a badass and will continue to be that way!!! :=)
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    I give him props for having the balls to say that Carrie has been through upheaval for a couple of years now.

    I was never a fan of Gary Overton, and with Randy Goodman's interview it has become apparent that he should have come in when Joe Galante left instead.
    Last edited by lolita55; 06-26-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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  • #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettylittlemustang View Post
    As a longtime fan, I find it frustrating to see some fans are NEVER satisfied. It's not like she has an INSANE hit single streak or anything...or hasn't performed on countless non-Nashville events like the Emmys, etc. Some of you put too much stock in awards.

    At the end of the day, it should be about the music. Plain and simple.

    Who knows why Carrie left...as has been pointed out, she has known Cindy Mabe for a long time. She knew her contract was up with Sony and likely wanted a fresh start AND to reconnect with someone who was an early supporter of hers.
    I find it frustrating too.Everyone on here has to act like it's a problem if one of her songs get to #1.Newsflash,people!!It's OK if ONE song doesn't get to #1!!If one doesn't get there,that's fine.When you have 25 #1 songs,I would consider that a pretty good running streak in an age where more people are streaming than buying records and buying singles instead of whole albums.The awards that Carrie gets are great but in the long run,I don't think those matter as long as her songs are being heard & that she enjoys what she's doing in the long run.She seems pretty content with the awards she already has & if she wins more,then that's just the cherry on top of her amazing career so far!!There are probably many reason reasons why she left Sony & the only thing we can do is speculate & give our opinions on why she left.Life is too short to worry about Carrie's songs going to number #1 or awards that she didn't get.Her music should be uniting all of us fans,but I feel we're getting too caught up in these little details that are trivial to me in the long run.Fresh starts are ALWAYS good & reconnecting with someone that was so influential in Carrie's early career can only be beneficial in the long run for our girl!!
    Last edited by Carrieslegs84; 06-26-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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    Carrie doesn't need Sony. I look forward to seeing what she does during the next album era. Go Carrie!!!

  • #20
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    Goodman interview on Hits - http://hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=307321


    Carrie part:
    Then you have artists like Carrie Underwood, who… You’re smiling.
    That was a big deal. It hurts… You look at those things and think, “Here’s an artist who’s been here all these years, and she left her catalog?!” I say that with a huge exclamation point and question mark. She came off American Idol, so she never looked at other labels. You go through the boxes you want to check for a superstar artist—airplay, sales, an incredible tour—and the team did everything they should’ve done, what would be expected. So I feel like I’m the one who let everyone down. I couldn’t convince her to stay. The team did everything they were supposed to, but in my role, I didn’t close it. I feel bad for the team as much as anything.

    calling bull hockey on they did everything, but that's under Overton basically not Goodman. Although he was the head when CCA was not released as a single...
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


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