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Thread: Remind Me lawsuit moves forward :(

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    Insane Carrie Fan gaycarebear's Avatar
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    Remind Me lawsuit moves forward :(

    Judge Trauger takes a listen. Here's what she says:
    "As Bowen points out, in both recordings, (1) the phrase 'Remind me' is often followed by the partner phrase 'Baby, remind me,' which essentially echoes the hook; (2) the hooks are repeated in close proximity and with similar intonation – higher the second time than the first; (3) the hooks rise in pitch from 're-' to '-mind' and descend in pitch from 're-' to '-mind,'; and (4) the syllable 're-' crosses two tones and the syllable '-me' crosses at least three tones.'
    According to the judge, Bowen can make a sufficient case that the use of these phrases in the hook "are more than mere coincidence, and in fact reflected coping of the Original Song by composers who were already familiar with Bowen's work from the Country Music Songwriting Workshop -- if not from other avenues as well."


    This doesn't mean that the judge has ruled that the country music superstars are guilty of stealing a song. Not yet. But it does mean that Underwood and Paisley can't escape the lawsuit, and could find themselves on trial after more expert testimony is gathered.

    [Personal Opinion: This lawsuit is bogus. Just someone trying to get their 15 minutes]

    Read more: Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley: Judge Allows Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song
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    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Is there a clip of the song in question?

    I would like to know more about this case.

    I am a songwriter and well aware of how songwriting can be influenced by what you hear around you. ITs only natural.

    But there is a pretty fine line between creating something original to you, and intentionally taking something from someone else and turning it into your own.

    I would want to hear the original clip of this persons song, and understand who the writers of RM were related to it.

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    Well I still don't understand why Carrie is named in the lawsuit since she has no writing credits on the song.

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    Obsessed Chart Watcher cary78663's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nccountrygal View Post
    Well I still don't understand why Carrie is named in the lawsuit since she has no writing credits on the song.
    Because by putting Carrie's name on it, it gets more visibility.

    As a note, I believe the 2 songwriters that help Brad write the song heard Bowen's song in 2008. Also I believe Brad did the Remind Me part himself and pitched it to Carrie before he brought in the 2 co-writers to help finish the song. So if they can prove the Remind Me part was from Brad only, that may end this pretty quickly.
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    Ultimate Carrie Fan jptexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nccountrygal View Post
    Well I still don't understand why Carrie is named in the lawsuit since she has no writing credits on the song.
    This is true, but her name gives more PR to their case, but IMO, doesn't help legally.

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    Insane Carrie Fan gaycarebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jptexas View Post
    This is true, but her name gives more PR to their case, but IMO, doesn't help legally.
    I think it helps legally for the songwriter's case simply b/c it sold over one million copies.

    I tried finding a link to her song, but it's nowhere online.

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    Ultimate Carrie Fan Smokyiiis's Avatar
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    Bowen's chorus:
    All it takes is your kiss to remind me

    All I need is your touch to remind me

    Yesterday's gone

    Take me to the place we started from

    When love was young

    Baby, remind me
    The first chorus in the Paisley/Underwood song:
    Been so long, bet you forget

    The way I used to kiss your neck

    Remind me, remind me

    So on fire, so in love

    Way back when we couldn't get enough

    Remind me, remind me.
    The suit asks for proceeds in excess of $10 million from the song.
    It's not the only country hit that's been contested recently.
    Country singer Justin Moore was sued last year by a man who claimed Moore's hit “Backwoods” was similar to a song he wrote. That case is still in the case management stage.
    A Texas-based songwriter sued country star Tim McGraw over an 11-year-old hit “Everywhere” in 2008. Federal judge Todd Campbell signed an order dismissing the suit in March because there was no evidence that the song was directly copied.

    Songwriter claims Brad Paisley-Carrie Underwood hit 'Remind Me' was stolen | Nashville City Paper

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    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Will clearly the lyrics do not add evidence to the case. They are not similar enough.

    It would be no different than sueing over that song you wrote where love was lost.

    Even if they did like the idea of a song that translates the feelings of "remind me of how we used to feel", that is still not copying a song.

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    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
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    Lizza has a YouTube channel, with some of her songs available - but not the one that is subject to the law suit. She's appeared at the Bluebird - and this example shows her giving a live broadcast on WDVX (a highly regarded listener-supported Roots Country radio station)



    If it can be proved that Charles Dubois and Kelley Lovelace were present when her song was critiqued, and the words that it would make a good duet were used, she may have a serious case (though if she's since changed the song, that may be weakened). Dubois is Brad Paisley's most frequent collaborator (His "Hillary Lindsey" if you want to put it that way.) Lovelace has also worked with Carrie (and may have had a particular hand in her vocal part of the duet)

    Songwriters get inspiration from many sources - if they are consciously aware of definite inspiration from an earlier song, they usually add that writer's name. For example, Ketch Secor and Bob Dylan did not "collaborate" on "Wagon Wheel", but Ketch drew the inspiration from an earlier Dylan draft, and added his name as co-writer. Quite often, however, writers subconsciously reference an earlier song, which has been part of their listening experience, but without being consciously aware of the debt. For example, Miranda seems to have thought initially that she wrote "Kerosene" from scratch, but it was pointed out that it sounded like a Steve Earle song - she then added Steve's name as co-writer, even though he hadn't lodged any complaint himself. (You can also hear Miranda covering another Steve Earle song, "Hillbilly Highway", on an Austin City Limits broadcast, in which she calls him her favourite writer, and jokes that's it's alright to rip off someone you like).

    Where this is not done, though, it can lead to acrimony. Dierks Bentley's "Home" sounded pretty similar musically to Jason Isbell's "In A Razor Town", and Isbell blamed Bentley directly, rather than the other writers. This didn't lead to a lawsuit, but both men resorted to personal abuse on Twitter.

    It's a pity that Carrie has been drawn into a case where she was not the writer (and it's possible that her name will eventually be struck out of the action). However the lawyers will push for her inclusion, as she would be a more tempting target for damages (or settlement) than the two co-writers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nccountrygal View Post
    Well I still don't understand why Carrie is named in the lawsuit since she has no writing credits on the song.
    Lawyers typically cast as wide a net as possible in lawsuits. They probably included everybody associated with the song in any way. If the suit moves forward the tangential parties will end up being dropped from the suit. I don't see how they could make a case that Carrie owes them anything since she would have been entitled to the performance royalties regardless of the writers. $10 million is obviously completely ridiculous since there is no way they even made that much from the song. My guess is they will settle out of court. I personally think her case is a little weak but it's not completely out of left field.

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    Ultimate Carrie Fan clh_hilary's Avatar
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    Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley: Judge Allows Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song
    NEWS
    By Eriq Gardner, The Hollywood Reporter | December 04, 2013 4:06 AM EST

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    Country music superstars Carrie Underwood and Brad Paisley are suddenly facing a very serious lawsuit after a federal judge in Nashville refused on Tuesday to dismiss a songwriter's claim of having her song stolen to create the duo's platinum-selling song, "Remind Me."

    Amy Bowen (known professionally as Lizza Connor) has brought allegations that could make for an episode of ABC's Nashville.

    According to a lawsuit she filed in May, the young songwriter composed her song in 2008 and then participated in a 14-week "Country Music Songwriting Workshop." There, she performed her own "Remind Me" for other composers, including advisors John Kelley Lovelace and Charles DuBois. Her song was critiqued. She was told that the song would work as a duet. Thereafter, she performed it for years at various Nashville venues and worked to improve it.


    About three years ago, Paisley, Lovelace and DuBois worked on a new song, also entitled "Remind Me." It was recorded in February 2011 and put out by Sony Music. It sold more than one million copies and achieved the top position on Billboard's chart for country songs.

    And so, Bowen took Paisley, Underwood, Sony and others to court for allegedly taking her work. But not just any court. She went to federal court in Nashville, which is on the way to becoming a very friendly forum for plaintiffs in music disputes. The ruling on Tuesday by Judge Aleta Trauger provides a good illustration of this.

    Typically, claims of theft in entertainment don't last very long in courts. But in cases involving Bridgeport, an entity controlling recordings by George Clinton and Funkadelic, the 6th Circuit has conferred protection on such small things as a two-second guitar chord and the phrase "bow wow wow, yippee yo, yippea yea."

    In her ruling, Judge Trauger nods to the "bow wow wow" case as well as the legal principle that a plaintiff who shows a high degree of access has a lower standard of proof when it comes to demonstrating substantial similarity. Here, Bowen's story of having her work showcased at a songwriting workshop and at Nashville venues appears to have done the job. The judge notes that for purposes of their motion to dismiss, Underwood and Paisley "do not dispute that the Amended Complaint sufficiently alleges 'access' to Bowen's copyrighted material." In legal papers, the defendants denied the two songs were similar enough.

    All that remains for the judge is a determination on whether or not Bowen can plausibly establish that the copyrighted elements of her "Remind Me" are "substantially similar" enough to the Paisley/Underwood recording.

    What's different about the two songs? Well, most of the lyrics for one thing.

    But both songs do use "remind me" and "baby, remind me" -- and then, there's the way "remind me" was used. According to the judge, "Bowen has plausibly shown that, taken in combination, the lyrics and associated melodies, intonations, and usage could be sufficiently original to constitute protectable material."

    Judge Trauger takes a listen. Here's what she says:

    "As Bowen points out, in both recordings, (1) the phrase 'Remind me' is often followed by the partner phrase 'Baby, remind me,' which essentially echoes the hook; (2) the hooks are repeated in close proximity and with similar intonation – higher the second time than the first; (3) the hooks rise in pitch from 're-' to '-mind' and descend in pitch from 're-' to '-mind,'; and (4) the syllable 're-' crosses two tones and the syllable '-me' crosses at least three tones.'

    According to the judge, Bowen can make a sufficient case that the use of these phrases in the hook "are more than mere coincidence, and in fact reflected coping of the Original Song by composers who were already familiar with Bowen's work from the Country Music Songwriting Workshop -- if not from other avenues as well."

    This doesn't mean that the judge has ruled that the country music superstars are guilty of stealing a song. Not yet. But it does mean that Underwood and Paisley can't escape the lawsuit, and could find themselves on trial after more expert testimony is gathered.

    This article originally appeared in THR.com.

    Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley: Judge Allows Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song | Billboard

    ---

    I am very annoyed that the media aren't pointing out that Carrie didn't write it so she cannot be sued for 'stealing' it.
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    sco
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    I agree. What passes for journalism these days is disturbing. Anybody can be sued for anything but that doesn't mean they can win. Carrie doesn't have a writing credit so saying the claim is 'they' stole the song meaning Carrie and Brad is simply inaccurate. Brad and the other writers will probably settle but the whole thing has little to do with Carrie. This type of thing is why they have lawyers on retainer.

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    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Arguably, Brad has almost as little culpability as Carrie. It is the two co-writers that are claimed to have had access to the song. Not Brad. And Brads own testimony about the song stated that he came up with the idea first (in his own head) and then called in the two co-writers.

    It is hard to say weather that original song may have affected them in the writing process of the brad song. But it seems unlikely that Brad can be connected to "stealing" when he is not the one who heard it origginally.

    In either case, it is obvious that Carries name is just being used for attention grabbing. And its a shame that this happens to famous people just to make money off them. But it does happen. And yes, very early on it will be accepted that Carrie had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, that will be after her name is thrown around for a while, and then her exonoration will be almost ignored in the end.

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    Carrie Fans Maniac kewlie78189's Avatar
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    they aren't the same..so dumb...

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    Obsessed Carrie Fan Audra's Avatar
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    I really can't see this case going far, lyrics aren't even remotely the same, they probably allowed it to go forward to just let it go forward and it will probably be solved quickly...especially when they are asking for $10 million LOL

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    Carrie Guru pkc4rls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley: Judge Allows Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song
    NEWS
    By Eriq Gardner, The Hollywood Reporter | December 04, 2013 4:06 AM EST

    5
    inShare
    9

    0

    Country music superstars Carrie Underwood and Brad Paisley are suddenly facing a very serious lawsuit after a federal judge in Nashville refused on Tuesday to dismiss a songwriter's claim of having her song stolen to create the duo's platinum-selling song, "Remind Me."

    Amy Bowen (known professionally as Lizza Connor) has brought allegations that could make for an episode of ABC's Nashville.

    According to a lawsuit she filed in May, the young songwriter composed her song in 2008 and then participated in a 14-week "Country Music Songwriting Workshop." There, she performed her own "Remind Me" for other composers, including advisors John Kelley Lovelace and Charles DuBois. Her song was critiqued. She was told that the song would work as a duet. Thereafter, she performed it for years at various Nashville venues and worked to improve it.


    About three years ago, Paisley, Lovelace and DuBois worked on a new song, also entitled "Remind Me." It was recorded in February 2011 and put out by Sony Music. It sold more than one million copies and achieved the top position on Billboard's chart for country songs.

    And so, Bowen took Paisley, Underwood, Sony and others to court for allegedly taking her work. But not just any court. She went to federal court in Nashville, which is on the way to becoming a very friendly forum for plaintiffs in music disputes. The ruling on Tuesday by Judge Aleta Trauger provides a good illustration of this.

    Typically, claims of theft in entertainment don't last very long in courts. But in cases involving Bridgeport, an entity controlling recordings by George Clinton and Funkadelic, the 6th Circuit has conferred protection on such small things as a two-second guitar chord and the phrase "bow wow wow, yippee yo, yippea yea."

    In her ruling, Judge Trauger nods to the "bow wow wow" case as well as the legal principle that a plaintiff who shows a high degree of access has a lower standard of proof when it comes to demonstrating substantial similarity. Here, Bowen's story of having her work showcased at a songwriting workshop and at Nashville venues appears to have done the job. The judge notes that for purposes of their motion to dismiss, Underwood and Paisley "do not dispute that the Amended Complaint sufficiently alleges 'access' to Bowen's copyrighted material." In legal papers, the defendants denied the two songs were similar enough.

    All that remains for the judge is a determination on whether or not Bowen can plausibly establish that the copyrighted elements of her "Remind Me" are "substantially similar" enough to the Paisley/Underwood recording.

    What's different about the two songs? Well, most of the lyrics for one thing.

    But both songs do use "remind me" and "baby, remind me" -- and then, there's the way "remind me" was used. According to the judge, "Bowen has plausibly shown that, taken in combination, the lyrics and associated melodies, intonations, and usage could be sufficiently original to constitute protectable material."

    Judge Trauger takes a listen. Here's what she says:

    "As Bowen points out, in both recordings, (1) the phrase 'Remind me' is often followed by the partner phrase 'Baby, remind me,' which essentially echoes the hook; (2) the hooks are repeated in close proximity and with similar intonation – higher the second time than the first; (3) the hooks rise in pitch from 're-' to '-mind' and descend in pitch from 're-' to '-mind,'; and (4) the syllable 're-' crosses two tones and the syllable '-me' crosses at least three tones.'

    According to the judge, Bowen can make a sufficient case that the use of these phrases in the hook "are more than mere coincidence, and in fact reflected coping of the Original Song by composers who were already familiar with Bowen's work from the Country Music Songwriting Workshop -- if not from other avenues as well."

    This doesn't mean that the judge has ruled that the country music superstars are guilty of stealing a song. Not yet. But it does mean that Underwood and Paisley can't escape the lawsuit, and could find themselves on trial after more expert testimony is gathered.

    This article originally appeared in THR.com.

    Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley: Judge Allows Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song | Billboard

    ---

    I am very annoyed that the media aren't pointing out that Carrie didn't write it so she cannot be sued for 'stealing' it.
    Ughhh I wish they would not mentioning Carrie first in these articles even if it gets more attention. It is not her song. She just agreed to do a duet with Brad. I hate that they keep using her name first. They need to go to Brad on this and stop this Carrie stuff.
    Last edited by pkc4rls; 12-05-2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    Insane Carrie Fan Marie2011's Avatar
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    After reading this I decided that Miley should sue Carrie for using the lyrics see you again, Mariah Carey should sue skillet for using the word hero, carrie should sue herself for using where the water meets the sky when she and the other two writers used it in another song that they co wrote together, etc.etc

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    Sad How Haters Diss Carrie So Much It Just Makes Me Shake My Head.

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    and this is finally settled - Carrie /Brad won

    After more than three years in court, the songwriters, artists and publishers behind "Remind Me" finally defeat a copyright infringment claim.
    On Thursday, a federal judge handed a summary judgment victory to Brad Paisley, Carrie Underwood, Kelley Lovelace and others involved in the creation and publishing of the platinum-selling country song, "Remind Me."

    Brad Paisley, Carrie Underwood Beat Lawsuit Claiming They Stole Song | Hollywood Reporter

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddkat View Post
    Maybe they can go to Chick Fil A and get some waffle fries and Polynesian Sauce to celebrate, lol.


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