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Thread: 2017 Grammy Awards

  1. #21
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Hmmm. This rule change could hurt Carrie. She gets help from mainstream voters. Now they can only vote in 15 categories instead of 24, so that means they might skip country. Bummer.

    Carrie does not do well when country voters are in control. yuck.

  • #22
    Obsessed Carrie Fan CarrieAddicted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesharky View Post
    Hmmm. This rule change could hurt Carrie. She gets help from mainstream voters. Now they can only vote in 15 categories instead of 24, so that means they might skip country. Bummer.

    Carrie does not do well when country voters are in control. yuck.

    The Academy voting committees are made up of musicians, engineers, lyricists, producers, and liner note writers.

    Don't ever think they are the same people of the CMA and ACM, because they're NOT.


    The voter votes in the categories they feel like knowing better. The same person might know a lot of Hip-Hop and Country, but not of Pop, for example.

    The voter has now to vote in 15 categories + the Big Four - which is a lot - and Country is a mainstream genre.
    What field do you think it's more likely to receive votes? Country or Jazz? The answer is easy.
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  • #23
    Ultimate Carrie Fan HuiZ's Avatar
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    Haha I wouldn't go as far as saying there are no corruptions or manipulations in Grammys, but it's definitely harder for a genre-specific group to play their politics here.

    Grammys have their share of eyebrow-raising wins too.

  • #24
    Insane Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
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    In theory, a song can be submitted, by a record label or by an individual NARAS member, in any field, and in theory the submissions vetting committee can move a submission to any other field. That is not the issue, and not what we were arguing.

    To take an example - Sony could submit "Choctaw County Affair" to the Country field, and, in theory, the vetting committee could move it to the American Roots Music field (on the grounds that it contains contributions from two artists who regularly perform in that field, and has a producer with an important roster in that field)

    In practice, though, both suggestions are highly unlikely. NARAS has apparently been sensitive to criticism that some of its decisions in past years didn't fully reflect the major labels' commercial priorities, and there are signs that they've moved rather closer to accommodating the labels. I think it very unlikely that they'd disturb a submission from Sony Nashville. (The most they'd do would be to choose between which of multiple submissions they'd send to the voters' shortlist in the performance category).

    Also, I don't see why you're rejecting "Chaser" as a Country song. Carrie sings it as a Country song, and it contains both vocal and musical touches which draw on the Country spectrum of influence - I hear Carrie referencing both a Western melody lilt and classic female vocalization in that song, even as early as the intro. Some of the touches used in later passages starting around 1'30, but recurring at several breaks in the later song have long been used in Oklahoman and West Texan tradition to evoke a sense of emptiness, and the effect of the wind in nature. The general theme of the lyric also fits well into the genre's tradition.

    One of the strengths of "Chaser" is that it's a hybrid song, which blends General Music influences with a Country realization. Carrie and her team have taken a lot of care over this song, and my view, it's one of her most successful. There are songs on "Storyteller" which I would say show less explicit Country roots - but if you're going to reject "Chaser", I think you'd have to reject a huge chunk of the Mainstream chart of current and recent years.

  • #25
    Insane Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
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    One thing I thought of this morning, in relation to "Chaser" - I once knew a guy (sadly, no longer with us) on-line, who lived in Texas, but often raced into Oklahoma. He was a "storm chaser" who tried to get as close as possible to dust devils, flash storms and tornadoes. We had a very argumentative, but mutually respectful, view of music, but I think he would have loved this song, particularly the fierce, whirling choruses that seem to break out suddenly, when Carrie goes full tilt after a more reflective passage.

  • #26
    Insane Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarrieAddicted View Post
    The Academy voting committees are made up of musicians, engineers, lyricists, producers, and liner note writers.

    Don't ever think they are the same people of the CMA and ACM, because they're NOT.

    While they are not the same (no "ballroom operators", bloggers and radio jocks, for example) - there is still a considerable membership overlap. Many people (such as Carrie herself) belong to all three. A high proportion of the Country voters will also vote at the CMA, and a rather smaller proportion also at the ACM.

    The label executives and promotional staff can't vote - but they do exercise influence behind the scenes, and the Grammys are far from a level playing field. I'm keen on seeing new and outsider talent getting through - but it happens less than it used to.

    One controversial point is that (unlike the motion picture organizations) the Grammy organizers don't supply voters with copies of the short-listed works. The most they will do is give website links to where albums can be listened to. This has two effects which arguably weaken the spirit of what NARAS stands for. On the one hand, it can discourage more than a handful of voters from voting in some of the minority fields, and on the other, it can seriously bias the majority fields towards particularly well-known artists or songs. (It can also work against some popular artists who may have gained a reputation for not being "cool" for some reason). In all voting pools, some voters will act like sheep and take the line others are taking - the Grammys have a higher reputation than most, but they're certainly not perfect.

  • #27
    Obsessed Carrie Fan CarrieAddicted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post
    In theory, a song can be submitted, by a record label or by an individual NARAS member, in any field, and in theory the submissions vetting committee can move a submission to any other field. That is not the issue, and not what we were arguing.

    To take an example - Sony could submit "Choctaw County Affair" to the Country field, and, in theory, the vetting committee could move it to the American Roots Music field (on the grounds that it contains contributions from two artists who regularly perform in that field, and has a producer with an important roster in that field)

    In practice, though, both suggestions are highly unlikely. NARAS has apparently been sensitive to criticism that some of its decisions in past years didn't fully reflect the major labels' commercial priorities, and there are signs that they've moved rather closer to accommodating the labels. I think it very unlikely that they'd disturb a submission from Sony Nashville. (The most they'd do would be to choose between which of multiple submissions they'd send to the voters' shortlist in the performance category).

    Also, I don't see why you're rejecting "Chaser" as a Country song. Carrie sings it as a Country song, and it contains both vocal and musical touches which draw on the Country spectrum of influence - I hear Carrie referencing both a Western melody lilt and classic female vocalization in that song, even as early as the intro. Some of the touches used in later passages starting around 1'30, but recurring at several breaks in the later song have long been used in Oklahoman and West Texan tradition to evoke a sense of emptiness, and the effect of the wind in nature. The general theme of the lyric also fits well into the genre's tradition.

    One of the strengths of "Chaser" is that it's a hybrid song, which blends General Music influences with a Country realization. Carrie and her team have taken a lot of care over this song, and my view, it's one of her most successful. There are songs on "Storyteller" which I would say show less explicit Country roots - but if you're going to reject "Chaser", I think you'd have to reject a huge chunk of the Mainstream chart of current and recent years.
    Yes, that's true. Now I see that I was kinda redundant when I replied you here. lol
    Indeed, that's what has been happening in recent years.

    Regarding "Chaser", I understand what you're saying and can kinda agree to some extent. However, as a whole, I still feel like "Chaser" is more of a Pop song than a Country. Sound and production-wise, especially in the chorus, it's just so Pop - at least to my ears?
    Many music critics have labeled it Pop too. So, I don't know?
    I'm not excluding your views of the song.
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  • #28
    Insane Carrie Fan liz278's Avatar
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    When will we see what Carrie's team submitted?

  • #29
    Obsessed Carrie Fan CarrieAddicted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz278 View Post
    When will we see what Carrie's team submitted?
    If I'm not mistaken, usually a few weeks/days after the cutoff date (Sep. 30).

    I think these will be the submitions:

    AOTY - Storyteller
    ROTY - Church Bells
    SOTY - CB (songwriters)
    Best Country Album - Storyteller
    Best Country Solo Performance - CB
    Best Country Song - CB (songwriters)

    I don't know about Keith's label, but they can submit "The Fighter" for Country Duo/Group Performance.
    Don't know if they will wait until it's a single or not, though.
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  • #30
    Junior Carrie Follower Momin's Avatar
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    I genuinely think that Carrie will release Choctaw County Affair after this rather than Dirty Laundry or any other song. They would probably want to capitalize on the song's strength this year (both because of the vocal performance and the writing of the song) because if Storyteller is nominated this year (and wins), chances for the song to be nominated will no longer exist. I think this is likely particularly because CCA was the song that was filmed at the CMA Fest over others.

  • #31
    Junior Carrie Follower keepplayingon2's Avatar
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    Let's all be realistic. Whatever Carrie submits, Thomas Rhett's Die A Happy Man will almost be locked in Song and Performance.

  • #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepplayingon2 View Post
    Let's all be realistic. Whatever Carrie submits, Thomas Rhett's Die A Happy Man will almost be locked in Song and Performance.
    Even though the performance wasn't all that special? Unlike the CMAs and ACMs the Grammy's seem to honor the vocalist part of the category a lot more. He could definitely be favored for country song, but I'm not sold on performance.
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  • #33
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepplayingon2 View Post
    Let's all be realistic. Whatever Carrie submits, Thomas Rhett's Die A Happy Man will almost be locked in Song and Performance.
    meh. It is a good song but the Grammys are not the CMAS. Thomas Rhett is not very well known at all outside of Nashville. Grammy voters are not going to be familiar with his work, or with him.

    Carrie has a big edge at the Grammys over no names like him. I like the song, but he does not have the name recognition or star power that he has.

    Chris Stapelton was an exception to the rule. His music is so good I can understand why he dominated last year, including the Grammys. But Thomas Rhett does not have that level of talent.

    With that said-- I do think Die a Happy Man could get a Grammy nomination. I just don't think it is the clear favorite that you make it out to be.

  • #34
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarrieAddicted View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, usually a few weeks/days after the cutoff date (Sep. 30).

    I think these will be the submitions:

    AOTY - Storyteller
    ROTY - Church Bells
    SOTY - CB (songwriters)
    Best Country Album - Storyteller
    Best Country Solo Performance - CB
    Best Country Song - CB (songwriters)

    I don't know about Keith's label, but they can submit "The Fighter" for Country Duo/Group Performance.
    Don't know if they will wait until it's a single or not, though.

    Agree. I think this is exactly what they will submit. I am also unsure what will happen with The Fighter.
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  • #35
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz278 View Post
    When will we see what Carrie's team submitted?
    The submission lists usually leak in October, with noms coming out in December.

  • #36
    Ultimate Carrie Fan txacar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesharky View Post
    Agree. I think this is exactly what they will submit. I am also unsure what will happen with The Fighter.
    If they release CCA in July do you still think they will submit CB? I was hoping it would be CCA so she could perform it at Grammys. I suppose, if it is the next release, they will probably base it on chart performance. After the initial reviews when ST was released it will be interesting to see how CCA is received.
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  • #37
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    ^ They can still perform CCA at the Grammys even if they submit CB for consideration. Hard to say.

    I guess I had not considered CCA as eligible for the Grammys this year as it won't peak until like November. So I think they can save CCA tilll next year if I am not mistaken.

    CCA would techinically be eligible this year if released prior to 9/30, but I think it could also be eligible next year if it peaks after 9/30. I have to check the rules. I tried the other day but could not find that part.

    I know for the CMAs, you can use the date it peaks or the date you release it for eligibility.
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  • #38
    Insane Carrie Fan twaintrain's Avatar
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    ^I don't know the rules as far as that goes, but that is kind of a double-edged sword. On one hand, if you submit a newly released song it will be peaking when people are voting and fresh in their minds. On the other hand, you run the risk of getting fewer nominations if people aren't familiar with it during the nomination process. I think that's why "Something In The Water" didn't get a Song nomination. It was brand new and people weren't familiar with it.
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  • #39
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    ^ at least the Grammys nominated SITW though unlike snotty Cmas Acms and Gosoel Music awards- all of whom snubbed SITW. Still confused as to why.
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  • #40
    Junior Carrie Follower Momin's Avatar
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    Since we're talking about the Grammys, I wanted to post this as a throwback to when this was nominated in 2008. I listened to this today after so many years:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GX7x_IdnVQ


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