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Thread: FIFTH single from BA - speculation thread

  1. #221
    Insane Carrie Fan
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    Now that I think about it, I think the label didn't push a fifth single because of the chance of missing the top 2. SH only had 4 singles, with 3 #1s and a #2, CR had 4 straight #1s, so they could push a fifth single, PO had 3 #1s and then a #2, they may have been losing momentum and BA with 2 #1s and #2s it could have missed the top 2 completely.

  • #222
    Insane Carrie Fan thunder92's Avatar
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    The era is over. Album sales are diminished so there really is no need for another single. A single is used as a promotional tool so with SNF, SOM, and the willie duet plus other stuff we don't know about Carrie is filled with promo.

    Miranda doesn't really get that extra stuff so she needs a single on the radio more so than Carrie does.

  • #223
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder92 View Post
    The era is over. Album sales are diminished so there really is no need for another single. A single is used as a promotional tool so with SNF, SOM, and the willie duet plus other stuff we don't know about Carrie is filled with promo.

    Miranda doesn't really get that extra stuff so she needs a single on the radio more so than Carrie does.
    All that is absolutely true.
    And it is likely the frame of mind Sony was in while deciding what to do. (also, its very likely that these type of plans were made qhite a while ago, we don't actually know how many singles they originally planned for the era.)

    But with all that, it really comes down to strategy and what you think will best serve your company.

    And I guess if I were the head of sony, and I was sitting down in a meeting with the bean counters and the marketers and the "profit forecasters", I would still be inclined to lean toward Carrie making the company more money over the next 3 months, especially with a single selling on itunes which is pure profit, than canning that project and taking financing money and putting it into two different projects by another one of our singers who's album is basically dead and has been for months, and whos duet is going to sell records for a competing label.

    From a business standpoint there is no way for me to wrap my brain around it. And I am interested to know what model they are using to make a decission like this.

    I guess it would be one thing to know that the BA Era is shutting down. That is what it is and I will assume the numbers have been crunched that that is the way it goes. They sold all the product they figure they can to still have a healthy profit from the whole era.

    But to know that money is being spent to keep another era alive, that has been depressed for months, and to know that more money is being spent on the same artist for a completely outside project, now it starts to seem odd.

    Not odd that you would cut your loses on a project like BA and close it down.

    But very odd that you would take profit money and spend it on a project like 4TR that has been dead for a while. Plus promoting another labels project for the sole purpose of promoting your artist.

    IF that is not hetching your bets for award season, I don't know what is.

    And if that is not limiting the first project from award consideration, I don't know what is.

    I am thinking purely from a business model, and I can not disagree more with how they are choosing to sepnd money.

    If its not favortism, what is it?
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  • #224
    Insane Carrie Fan thunder92's Avatar
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    ^yeah I get that too. I was just pointing out possibilities lol. Not saying I agree
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  • #225
    Junior Carrie Follower Inspired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    All that is absolutely true.
    And it is likely the frame of mind Sony was in while deciding what to do. (also, its very likely that these type of plans were made qhite a while ago, we don't actually know how many singles they originally planned for the era.)

    But with all that, it really comes down to strategy and what you think will best serve your company.

    And I guess if I were the head of sony, and I was sitting down in a meeting with the bean counters and the marketers and the "profit forecasters", I would still be inclined to lean toward Carrie making the company more money over the next 3 months, especially with a single selling on itunes which is pure profit, than canning that project and taking financing money and putting it into two different projects by another one of our singers who's album is basically dead and has been for months, and whos duet is going to sell records for a competing label.

    From a business standpoint there is no way for me to wrap my brain around it. And I am interested to know what model they are using to make a decission like this.

    I guess it would be one thing to know that the BA Era is shutting down. That is what it is and I will assume the numbers have been crunched that that is the way it goes. They sold all the product they figure they can to still have a healthy profit from the whole era.

    But to know that money is being spent to keep another era alive, that has been depressed for months, and to know that more money is being spent on the same artist for a completely outside project, now it starts to seem odd.

    Not odd that you would cut your loses on a project like BA and close it down.

    But very odd that you would take profit money and spend it on a project like 4TR that has been dead for a while. Plus promoting another labels project for the sole purpose of promoting your artist.

    IF that is not hetching your bets for award season, I don't know what is.

    And if that is not limiting the first project from award consideration, I don't know what is.

    I am thinking purely from a business model, and I can not disagree more with how they are choosing to sepnd money.

    If its not favortism, what is it?
    Here is my business take:

    Miranda will be in studio and releasing an album most likely 2014 and the label may be trying to keep her in the forefront of peoples minds. Carrie on the other hand is able to stay in the forefront due to her many opportunities (CMA hosting, Emmy/Grammy apearances...) I would think it would be less expensive for the label to spend maintenance dollars on Miranda because Carrie has a lower startup cost for a new record regardless of time between albums.
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  • #226
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    No matter how they try to spin it- I smell bs. Sorry.lol
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  • #227
    Junior Carrie Follower Inspired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesharky View Post
    No matter how they try to spin it- I smell bs. Sorry.lol
    LOL! - That's it

  • #228
    Obsessed Carrie Fan cyberzoney's Avatar
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    A 5th single would make money. No question about that. In a normal business environment, they would go after the profit. That profit is totally disconnected from anything they do for Miranda. So, you need to ask yourself why Sony is OK with missing out on a sure profit. The answer is NOT that they hate Carrie or have a bias towards Miranda. That answer is ridiculous. I still believe that they have a bigger, longer term picture in mind. Album 5 will likely produce 4 more #1 singles. That would make Carrie's streak incredible. A 5th from BA might struggle on the charts by Carrie's standards. Look at Miranda's 5th. We may not like it but there is a real strong reason for this decision especially give that they are avoiding more profit. The reason is probably for the longer term benefit of the business and Carrie. Carrie, herself, may have felt too busy to be involved in a 5th. I doubt that she wants a 5th if she cannot add promotion value. The label did a great job promoting BA. I think we need to give them credit for how they have handled BA and respect that they know what they are doing.
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  • #229
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspired View Post
    Here is my business take:

    Miranda will be in studio and releasing an album most likely 2014 and the label may be trying to keep her in the forefront of peoples minds. Carrie on the other hand is able to stay in the forefront due to her many opportunities (CMA hosting, Emmy/Grammy apearances...) I would think it would be less expensive for the label to spend maintenance dollars on Miranda because Carrie has a lower startup cost for a new record regardless of time between albums.
    I see where you are going with this. And it does make a certain amount of sense.

    But in business, you usually go for the money first and ask questions later.

    In other words, I still don't see how gambling on "keeping miranda in the publics eye" by spending hard cold cash to try to do so, is worth the money spent vrs. sending a single of Carries to radio "with little promotional money spent since so much promo money is already being spent by others for her other projects " and assuming that a new single is going to continue to sell Cd's continue to sell Dvd's continue to promote one of their biggest Stars, give one of their biggest Stars a solid chance at being awarded Most Played Female at Radio, giving that Star a solid chance at winning the Female Vocalist of the Year Award, giving the album Blown Away a better chance at winning Album of the Year.
    It must be understood that voters vote for whats right in front of them. The label knows that!

    Does the label not consider this? Do they consider it when it comes to Miranda?

    See, Miranda will be the recipiant of all of this trickle down effect.

    After 4 years of this type of history, is it still surprising to us that the label would take this action?

    At the end of the day, "IF the label wants Carrie Underwood to win FVOTY / AOTY / why would they shut down the project and continue to promote Mirandas?"

    Its still not working out in my head.
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  • #230
    Insane Carrie Fan liveasong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire2004 View Post
    ^^ I think Tee meant Justin Moore lol.
    Still don't know who he is. (smiley)
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  • #231
    Insane Carrie Fan liveasong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesharky View Post
    ^ yep Miranda has yet another duet coming up after the Keith Urban one- this time with Dustin Moore. She also has one on the Willie cd like Carrie. I guess no on wants to duet with poor Carrie anymore as they know Miranda is the real ticket to award show love, not Carrie. (sad)
    I think it's the other way round. Carrie doesn't want to perform with irrelevant flops. She duets with legends and I'm okay with that. (smiley)
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  • #232
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Keep in mind also, this action will literally take "Mots Played Female.." out of Carries hand and place it in Mirandas.

    And I know, I know, the label doesn't care about little things like that.......But then why do it???
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  • #233
    Ultimate Carrie Fan Farawayhills's Avatar
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    I do feel there's a risk of us wanting to have it both ways in some of the arguments we advance.

    A few weeks ago, quite a few posts were taking the line that Carrie has considerable control over her career, and a large input into the choice of singles
    Now, the emphasis seems to have shifted to Sony arbitrarily denying Carrie a single, with the implication that she probably wanted one, but is being slighted.

    The fact is, we have no real way of knowing the details of the decision making, either then or now.

    For what it's worth, I suspect that Carrie does not have anything like total control over her singles (based, e.g on her own remarks that she was hoping TBC would be, and FC would not be, chosen as singles), but that she does make her general hopes known (based, e.g. on her remark that she wanted to follow her third release with a "happy" song). I do think, though, that if she really put her foot down and insisted on having another release, once the album had fulfilled most of it's commercial expectations, her stature on the label roster would probably mean that they'd let her have it.
    However, I obviously can't prove either proposition - so your guesses are as good as mine.

    In any case, I'd be disappointed if the risk of an otherwise desirable song not reaching the top two was a decisive consideration for either of them (but that's just me)
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  • #234
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveasong View Post
    I think it's the other way round. Carrie doesn't want to perform with irrelevant flops. She duets with legends and I'm okay with that. (smiley)
    Haha true!!!

  • #235
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farawayhills View Post
    I do feel there's a risk of us wanting to have it both ways in some of the arguments we advance.

    A few weeks ago, quite a few posts were taking the line that Carrie has considerable control over her career, and a large input into the choice of singles
    Now, the emphasis seems to have shifted to Sony arbitrarily denying Carrie a single, with the implication that she probably wanted one, but is being slighted.

    The fact is, we have no real way of knowing the details of the decision making, either then or now.

    For what it's worth, I suspect that Carrie does not have anything like total control over her singles (based, e.g on her own remarks that she was hoping TBC would be, and FC would not be, chosen as singles), but that she does make her general hopes known (based, e.g. on her remark that she wanted to follow her third release with a "happy" song). I do think, though, that if she really put her foot down and insisted on having another release, once the album had fulfilled most of it's commercial expectations, her stature on the label roster would probably mean that they'd let her have it.
    However, I obviously can't prove either proposition - so your guesses are as good as mine.

    In any case, I'd be disappointed if the risk of an otherwise desirable song not reaching the top two was a decisive consideration for either of them (but that's just me)
    And you last statement is my real beef at this point.
    The one last remaining "logical" argument would be that the label does not want to risk an "underachiever" on Carries record.

    But that is such a defeatest attitude on my mind. Not only does it suggest that there is not music on the album worthy of making it to the top, but it suggests that people would not be interested enough to get it there.
    But ultimately, it suggests a manipulation of her marketing that suggests Carrie Underwood would only do something that was going to warrant a #1 rating. Anything less would blemish her.
    And I just think that is a terrible position to take. Not only from a marketing and business sense, but from an artistic one as well.

    But it is true that we will never know. And what we do know is that the label is putting this project to bed and focusing on other artists that will surely benefit that artist come award time. There is surely no doubt about that.

    So let it be writen, so let it be done.

    (but I sure hope we don't spend the next 2 years sweating about every song Carrie ever releases going to #1. Its exausting.)

  • #236
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklongbeach View Post
    Keep in mind also, this action will literally take "Mots Played Female.." out of Carries hand and place it in Mirandas.

    And I know, I know, the label doesn't care about little things like that.......But then why do it???

    Exactly!!' Now Carrie won't get most played female-- it will be miranda again!!! I knew they would screw her! I knew it in my core.

  • #237
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    ^ I don't believe for a second that Carrie had anything to do with the lack of a 5th single. Kelly Clarkson and Carrie have both made it clear many times that the label picks the singles as well as how many. Carrie and Kelly have some input- but it is not their call to make.

    Ie- Kelly was pissed that her label released that song that sounded like Halo-- and she fought it- but they won. Carrie may have fought for a 5th single behind the scenes but lost once again.

  • #238
    Carrie Guru pklongbeach's Avatar
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    It always boils back down to the same thing; We will never know.

    But I feel lin my heart I do know. I do know this much in my heart. Carrie would have been thrilled to release new music and would have worked as she always has to support it. Blown Away was probably the most personal album Carrie has made and it meant alot and she anticipated alot. Her whole crew did. As did the label.

    If the label "decided" there would be a 5th stingle, there would have been a 5th single and Carrie would have happily supported it. As it stands, she is quietly and with resolve, accepting what is, and is moving onto future amazing things.

    This girl has the drive and focus of a professional.

    So that is the truth for me. I have seen nothing to indicate otherwise. Everything she has ever done and continues to do supports this feeling.

    But oh well, who am I to complain abuout the amazing things happening to her. And how selfish would I be to demand more or better.

    I will take the Carrie-Road on this one.

    Cause I know, no matter what, she will not be held from her hearts desire one way or another. And her hearts desire is not for awards alone.

  • #239
    Carrie Fans Legend teesharky's Avatar
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    ^Agree. That is what I feel in my heart. Carrie would have been thrilled for a 5th single. Plus it would have bought her more time for album 5. Now there will be pressure for Carrie to rush out the album faster as there are no songs on radio for so long.

    This makes absolutely no sense to me. Miranda's cd is almost done do she did not need a 5th single. Plus her album era went 2 years whereas carries went 1 year and a few months. Really unfair. They are not even giving Carrie a chance to compete withMiranda for female vocalist given how she dominates radio all year with no breaks. And I think that is exactly Overton's intent sadly.

  • #240
    sco
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    Even if we knew all of the reasons Sony and Carrie chose to release the singles they did and the number of singles, many here would not agree with that decision. Given the fact that we know basically nothing about their reasoning the speculation and angst serves little purpose. Here's a quote from Carrie that sums up her attitude pretty nicely. We could all take a lesson from her.

    "I am a very lucky lady, for sure, and can’t wait to just see what doors open up next."
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